Year of the Unicorn: Old School Romantasy

Short Description

Year of the Unicorn by Andre Norton is a 1965 fantasy novel with subtle romantic elements. How does this vintage novel featuring outsider characters compare with today’s romantasy? Romance reader Kassi joins Shelf Love to discuss Gillan’s journey of identity, empowerment, and agency as she embarks on an adventure: arranged marriage with a were Rider. Would you give up your power for a beautiful fantasy? It’s very demure, very mindful — this oldie is a goodie, although there are no unicorns.

Tags

romantasy, scifi and fantasy romance, book discussion

Show Notes

Year of the Unicorn by Andre Norton is a 1965 fantasy novel with subtle romantic elements. How does this vintage novel featuring outsider characters compare with today’s romantasy? Romance reader Kassi joins Shelf Love to discuss Gillan’s journey of identity, empowerment, and agency as she embarks on an adventure: arranged marriage with a were Rider. Would you give up your power for a beautiful fantasy? It’s very demure, very mindful — this oldie is a goodie, although there are no unicorns.

Discussed: Year of the Unicorn by Andre Norton (1965)

Guest: Kassi

Transcript

Andrea Martucci: [00:00:00] Hello, and welcome to Shelf Love, a podcast about romance novels and how they reflect, explore, challenge, and shape desire. I'm your host, Andrea Martucci, and on this episode, I'm joined by Kassi to discuss Year of the Unicorn by Andre Norton, a romantic fantasy novel published in 1965.

Kassi, thanks for being here today.

Kassi: Thank you for having me, Andrea.

Andrea Martucci: So Kassi, how did you get into reading romance? How long ago was it? What was your gateway in?

Kassi: I started reading romance in the early 2000s when I was probably late middle school, early high school but was not seriously consuming a lot of romance probably until I was in college. My very first actual romance novel was a total mistake. My grandma knew that I loved reading, knew that I was into sci fi and fantasy, and she just picked a book off the shelf at a supermarket that had a woman on it and a leopard, and thought, oh, Kassi's gonna like this.

I really don't think she spent any time looking at what the book was at all. Well, it ended up being, like, a cheesy shifter graphic romance novel and that was my first novel and I remember reading it and probably being like late middle school, early high school thinking oh my gosh my grandma would be so scandalized if she knew this is what she bought for me.

And then it wasn't until I was in college and I didn't have a lot of disposable income, and I loved going to the used bookstore and picking up used romance novels, the bodice rippers for 50 cents, and I would just crush through those especially during summers of college.

And then I really found myself leaning into like the paranormal scene of the early aughts.

I always liked historical romance. I've never been one to usually enjoy contemporary just because I have a really hard time separating the fiction from what I know our actual reality to be. So it's hard for me to really get immersed in contemporary most of the time.

There are some contemporaries I really enjoy. And then most recently, I have found myself almost pigeonholed. I almost exclusively only want to read monster bait these days, where one or all of the characters are just completely not human.

As I've gotten older I spend a lot of time asking myself, why do I like what I like?

Number one, why am I almost exclusively reading this very niche sub genre within this larger genre? And, why this? What is it specifically about this? So I spent a lot of time, trying to unpack that and trying to think about what is going on in this larger collective experience where these stories are getting written, they're becoming very popular, or have always been popular and why [00:03:00] am I gravitating towards them?

So that's where I'm at right now in my romance journey.

When I was in my early 20s I always felt really embarrassed to talk about reading a lot of romance, and I think that's pretty common for a lot of avid romance readers. There was a time when we felt like, ugh if I admit to this, it's gonna be, like, so embarrassing, and, now I'm at a place in my life where I shout it from the rooftops.

I love romance. This genre does so many interesting things. It deserves to be taken very seriously, even if the stories aren't trying to be serious, it is a serious genre. And so now I'm a big champion for not just, being honest about my interest in romance, but a champion for the genre across, everyone, romance readers and non romance readers.

Andrea Martucci: Okay, so I was gonna ask when you say like monster romances, are we talking like, Ruby Dixon? Like aliens? Are we talking Minotaur Farm? Give us a sense. What subgenre are we talking about? Or maybe all of them?

Kassi: Sure, yeah I love an alien romance so I've read a lot of Ruby Dixon, Victoria Aveline, she has a series, the Clecanian series where it's a space alien with like captive human women I've been reading a lot of those stories lately, and then I have a thing for orcs, and I love trying to think about, like, where did this come from?

Was it watching Lord of the Rings at a formative age like what is it do what that i find so sexy about orcs and like their otherness compared to us humans and where there was a time when I was really into reading like shifter paranormals I've really moved away from that I'm bored by the character that is effectively like 90 percent human for most of the story, and then also has this other facet of themselves.

I'm really interested in stories where one character is just 100 percent not us. And so some of the other authors I really enjoy, CM Nascosta , Lillian Lark those are some of the authors today that I'll insta buy. I also really like, Catherine Moon. She does a lot of cool stuff with like reverse harem monster stories.

Andrea Martucci: Oh, awesome. Okay. Well, And you also said that you spend a lot of time thinking about why do we love romance. So have you found any answers? At least for you, like, why do you love reading romance?

Kassi: Yeah, I think that so many other people, including yourself, are so much better at articulating, like, why romance? Why do so many people read it? And for me personally it's, I think, very similar to a lot of people where it's this space where, I get to explore ideas of societal challenges that, I face and then getting to imagine, what could be and how that kind of helps me reframe my own perception of my role in [00:06:00] society and how, I can be or not be, and so you know, in romance, and in this book that we're going to talk about, discussion of how people in relationships, or characters in relationships, they're not always people are constrained by societal structures, and sometimes in the stories, how they're able to break through some of the constraints that are placed on them.

Or, sometimes the stories are, it's not about breaking through barriers, any structures. Sometimes it's just about getting to have kind of that cinnamon roll, low stakes, happy story.

Andrea Martucci: Yeah, I was gonna say in terms of, like, why you love romance and what's interesting about it for you, this book, I think, is a perfect example. So I'm really excited to talk about this with you. We read Year of the Unicorn by Andre Norton. Spoiler alert, there's no unicorns.

Kassi: Big spoiler, if you are looking for unicorns, do not come to this book.

Andrea Martucci: So I'm going to read the back of the book and then we'll talk more about what this book is actually about. So this book was published in 1965. So this book is about 60 years old and pre dates what many of us would think of as the modern popular romance fiction genre which is interesting in the context of this discussion.

" Year of the Unicorn returns to Andre Norton's Witch World with a tale of adventure and magic. The orphan, Gillin..." we didn't discuss this. Is it Gillin (soft G) or Gillin? (hard G )

Kassi: I believe it's Gillon (soft g) and I'm basing that off of the Audible recording pronunciation.

Andrea Martucci: Great, okay, let's go with Gillin, soft G. "The orphan Gillin grew up in an abbey in High Halleck, always knowing she was different and never feeling at home. When the lords of High Halleck pledge twelve brides to the were riders in exchange for their protection, Gillin is faced with an opportunity few would consider, to take the place of one of the twelve chosen women and go off to parts unknown to marry one of these strange wild men.

But Gillan leaps at the chance to leave the only home she has ever known in the hopes of finding something she was meant to do. And her rare gift to see through illusions that fool others will prove vital in a journey where nothing is as it seems."

So Kassi, do you think that is like a good encapsulation of what this book is about, or is there anything vital that you think it's leaving out?

Kassi: I feel like the only vital part left out is that it's a story of Gillan's journey, not just, through this adventure departing the Abbey, but also this journey of beginning to understand who she really is without having her own personal history, without having context of where she came from.

The story is also her being able to understand who she is, who she could be. So she's able to really decide where do I fit in, where do I want to go.

Andrea Martucci: Yeah. Exactly. Yeah, and it's like [00:09:00] a high fantasy medieval ish world that, a lot of fantasy worlds are like that. And these were men, they call them the,

Kassi: the Riders.

Andrea Martucci: Yes, the Riders. All she knows about them really is they're like were men. And nobody really knows in the place she lives what that means but very interesting, especially with how big shapeshifting became in romance, just so very interesting that this doesn't seem to have been a super well trodden fantasy romance trope at the time that it just feels like much more up for grabs how the author wants to define that.

And then also Gillan is an orphan like you were saying she's trying to decide who she wants to become. She sort of knows that she's different from other people at the beginning. She knows she has this gift. She knows that she looks a bit different from the people of the place that she currently lives. So I think even she starts the book with this outsider feeling, like she knows she doesn't belong here. And that's a big thing that is really prompting her to be like, you know what's worse than the unknown? The known that is absolutely boring and repetitive and I can't live a life where just every day is like this. I would rather go off and die immediately if that's what's going to happen. I don't think that's going to happen, but maybe, who knows?

So yeah, I think it's, I think it's a very compelling kickoff of this romance where we have this character who's like in this life that she always knows and just venturing into the unknown and meeting new types of people, going places that she's never been before.

So Kassi, how did you first come upon this book?

Kassi: I first learned about this book through the book review forum section of the website Smart Bitches Trashy Books. Somebody, a guest reviewer, reviewed this story in December of 2016, and I think I found it in probably, maybe 2018, 2019, 2020. It was a couple of years ago. And the person who wrote the review just talked about oh this is a total Squee for me.

This is such a cute story. This made me feel happy. And I thought, okay that's great. That was what I was in the market for at the time, and I picked it up, and it was just like, yeah, same. This is like a palate cleanser of a story when you're looking for something that's a little bit different, a little outside of what is normally getting written now, and the style that books are getting written now again, because this book is so old.

Andrea Martucci: Yeah. In preparation for this episode, I read that review. And it's one of the few meaty reviews about this book that I could find on the internet. Obviously there's some Good reads and Amazon but probably due to its age, it's not like there's a ton of meaty available reviews of the book.

I was curious like how well known this book was. [00:12:00] Obviously there are people who remember it and love it for various reasons maybe they read it a long time ago or whatever but I got the sense that Andre Norton was prolific in fantasy but was trying to understand her position like in fantasy. You know, is she up there with Tolkien or is she one of those people who was prolific but forgotten?

Do you have a sense of that at all?

Kassi: Probably just about as much of a sense as you do. Like if you read like an author bio, it talks about how she's won some pretty prestigious awards within science fiction and fantasy, like maybe not specifically the Hugo or the Nebula, like at that caliber. And so I think that as an author, she was extremely well respected within those spaces, sci fi and fantasy, but I also personally don't know a whole lot about her or her other work. This is the only story of hers that I've read so far.

Andrea Martucci: Yeah, and I saw somebody, somebody somewhere claimed that this was like the first --which is always a suspect or hard to prove claim, but let's say like a very early example of a fantasy with a main character, main perspective character who is a woman.

So I thought, that's interesting. I don't know enough about fantasy to like even gut check that, you know? But that, interesting if true. Yeah, I honestly don't feel like I know enough about the history of fantasy to contextualize where this book fell in fantasy, but there were also elements of this book that felt very gothic to me.

And in the 1960s, the gothic romance was huge. So it was pinging that for me, like that feeling of a little bit disoriented and a female main character who's trying to put together the pieces of what is happening and stumbling through like determined to do something and solve the mystery, but it's not super straightforward what's happening and who to trust and all of that. That was one thing that felt something that was happening in the contemporary time.

What feels like squee to you about this book?

Kassi: Okay I'll try to run through sort of a concise list because my thoughts will run all over trying to answer that question.

But I think first and foremost I really loved how the female main character was portrayed and carried herself throughout the book. When we talk about how it's okay, we weren't around in the 1960s reading at the time I think even today you don't always see female lead characters getting portrayed or getting portrayed in this way, even though it's happening more now than ever, I think about in my own lived experience, the first time I really came across a character who was female, the lead, and competent enough to save herself, it was Ellen Ripley from the Alien, franchise

And being a [00:15:00] young person and being like, Oh, there can be stories about women like me who can handle their own business.

And so I'm just a sucker for any story where the character has a lot of mastery over her own ideas, thoughts, ambitions, is gonna take risks, chances, is gonna trust herself to be able to solve hard problems. I just I always love that.

And then what I like about this book, and, for some readers, I could see how if you were trying to read this through a romance lens this may not be that satisfying of a story because I think that the author wrote it as a fantasy story with some romantic elements.

As a person who predominantly reads romance I want to read this story through a romance lens. And the romance in it is a lot more subtle and not as heavy handed like the scenes where the central characters that are, going to be in this loving relationship when they're together, there isn't a ton of time spent, letting them have a ton of dialogue.

But, dialogue that is there, while it's very concise, I think it's really sweet. And earlier I described this book as like a palate cleanser where, if you're reading a lot of stories where it's very romance heavy, and people are just super horny all of the time, and especially, and we can get to this, how the story has elements of like a fated mates trope. Often times the fated mates are just so bananas for each other, and we don't really know why, other than they're just fated mates.

In this story, I thought it was really cool that while there is this fated mates component the main characters still are trying to figure each other out and give each other space to decide do you actually really like me?

Andrea Martucci: yeah. And so the love interest's name is Herrel. And all of the riders have H names, which is a little confusing at times where I'm like, Oh God, which person is this? Honestly, they don't even name all of them because there's really no point.

So his name is Herrel and he is also an outsider, even among the riders.

When the women who are chosen from this other land go to become brides, the way they choose their partners, and I think this comes up in the Smart Bitches Trashy Books review, about how it's interesting even in of itself that brides choose their partner.

The way they choose is they come into this enchanted glen where their sight is being manipulated, their experience of the world is being manipulated, but they see these like beautiful cloaks and the women are attracted to a particular cloak that represents the man who wove this cloak.

And Gillan, upon seeing this, she's like, wait a second, she realizes that she's seeing both what the other women are seeing, but she's also able to see something beneath it and see the [00:18:00] reality of it.

What I find really interesting about that in terms of like how she chooses him to be her husband in this situation is that she goes into it with completely clear eyes and she isn't sure exactly what it is about his cloak that appeals to her but she feels her eye continuing to be drawn to it and she notes that it's off to the side, apart from the others.

Kassi: I love a choosing, especially when the female lead character gets to do the choosing. I've never come across another story where the choosing was done in this way, where it's like you're not even seeing the candidates, you're so it's a little bit of a love is blind situation where it's whose coat do you like the best?

I love that she went for the one that was wadded up and thrown off to the side instead of the fancy ones.

Andrea Martucci: I feel like there's always this element for the two of them like they both feel like outsiders and they're a little bit different and maybe not accepted by the society that they live in and so they feel a kinship there. Even from this first meeting, she picks his cloak and she goes into this like foggy space and he comes to meet her and he's like, why did you choose my cloak?

Like he's so surprised.

Kassi: Are you sure? Are you sure you wanted me?

Andrea Martucci: Yeah, and I think that if you kind of contrast that with the way heroes tend to be like male main characters in a lot of, these more overt romance novels, I think there's much less of a need to portray him as like the most masculine, dominant badass. like, he's not the leader.

He is literally the runt of the litter in this group. I think that's so interesting, but also from a character building perspective their romance starts, their relationship starts off on such an equal plane, but also I don't know like, just that feeling of validation and being seen.

I think that's interesting. And then also that he knows immediately that she isn't fooled by the mirage that is being created for all the other women.

Kassi: What's really great about that is instead of being threatened by that -oh, you can see through our glamour, you can see through our bullshit, he's like, Okay, that's fine, but also you gotta be careful, because not everybody's gonna feel the same way that I do, not everybody's gonna be accepting of this the way that I am, so we need to strategize and you're gonna have to act as though nothing's amiss.

And, Herrel the way he's described physically. When she finds him, he gets described and again, the first encounter seems to have this glamour over him, which is this societally handsome human man but she very quickly is able to see through that, and the way that he gets described is like tall and skinny, which I love because so many male characters in romance stories are just this very specific proportion, right?

They're always like very, very tall and usually tall. [00:21:00] They're always total beefcakes. And so I thought it was cool that and again, maybe because this wasn't like written entirely as a romance, but you have this tall skinny guy.

He gets described as having a very pointy chin. So it's okay, that's interesting. Slanted eyebrows. I had a hard time in my mind's eye picturing whether or not it was like a Spock situation?

Andrea Martucci: Mm-Hmm

Kassi: He's got these really vivid green Irises and so he's not societally handsome, but she likes him right away anyway.

And she, knows for herself, she's like, well, I really prefer the reality of who he is to like this glamour. And that she knows about herself right away. She was like, I'd rather know this truth than, even though later in the story, sometimes she questions it when it gets hard. But at the onset she's like, you know, I like you the way you are.

And something else I thought was cool about this story is that you have these two outsiders and the female character is coming from a place with a lot more confidence. She understands that being a lot different is dangerous, she has to keep her wits about her but she doesn't inherently just feel bad about herself for being so different, where Herrel is, just always so surprised that anybody wants him and always reminding her, reminding himself that he is the runt of the litter, and she's having to hype him up, which I loved about this story, I love that, in this dynamic between these two characters, the female character was the one, trying to build up his confidence and reassure him, because I think oftentimes in stories it's the other way around.

Andrea Martucci: It's you're beautiful because I find you beautiful. There is a lot of that with the male main characters trying to like, build up the confidence of female main characters in particular. Yeah, it's super interesting how self assured she is. And I found her to be really logical in a cool way.

Like. there's this scene where all the other women are getting a little stressed and anxious about this situation. And she's like, look, they haven't hurt us. Why would they want to hurt us? And she goes on this whole soothing like you wouldn't know your husband anyways. How is this any different from what you've always expected about marriage? It's just the perfect thing to say, to reset the tone of the group.

So she has the ability to, I think, be very self aware and like aware of these group dynamics and adjust a little bit.

And she knows she has power. This kind of hard to define power. She knows it's there, she knows that it's like very untried and that she hasn't experimented with it but she has this inner confidence that, I have a will. I don't know how to use this yet. But I know that I have power in this situation to influence the outcome and that I don't need to just lay here and wait to be saved or just wait for my fate to happen.

I am an active [00:24:00] agent in this situation. Which is pretty badass.

If you think about I'll talk about Fourth Wing. Cause, It's a hot topic right now. There are times in Fourth Wing where Violet - she's the main character of Fourth Wing.

She knows she's smart, but she still needs to be gassed up and reminded to like use her brain or use her resources by the male main character. And so I guess if we just want to do like a compare and contrast between, and these are two points, these are two very different books written 60 years apart not necessarily representative examples, but like I don't think that the badassness in this book written in 1965 is even something where we're like we have all these badass female main characters in 2024.

And she may have been ahead of her time, but now that's old hat.

I don't even think that's a given in books today.

Kassi: Yeah, absolutely, and if, people who are listening want to know, why should I pick up a book from 1965? This is why. It holds up, and it's doing some pretty interesting things, even in today's time, where we are seeing a lot of, badass, female leads getting written.

A lot of the time they're also really bratty, and that's something that I have a hard time understanding. You don't have to be a jerk just because you're confident and independent. Cut these people around you some slack. And I'm not sure, like, where that comes from, like, where being confident and independent and then also, being aggressive and difficult to be around sometimes like why does that have to go hand in hand and in this character, in this story from 60 years ago, the competent independent lead character is not that like she's polite courteous thoughtful

Andrea Martucci: Very demure, very mindful.

Kassi: very demure very mindful very yeah and the romance is so cutesy in this book.

Andrea Martucci: Yeah. Okay. So it turns out that Gillan is a witch. There is a land that lot of the people where she has come from are not at all familiar with this other land, but there are a bunch of women there who are witches and, they're more similar to the people from the rider's world than from where she grew up.

They're both magical ish people. And the witch ness seems to be like a very female centered trait, like it, it seems like wherever she comes from it's not a thing men are magical, but there was this very interesting element where it becomes clear that it is believed that when a witch has sex with a man that she loses her power.

And this doesn't really come up until - so they're married, and we know that they're sleeping next to each other. We don't really get any scenes, but it's a lot of last scene ends, and they wake up, and they're, like, sleeping. And so I feel like it was, like, a little bit vague, where I was, like, okay, are they consummating their relationship? I assume this is completely closed door, but maybe they aren't.

But then it becomes clear that they haven't, and that the other couples have been, and they have a night just before they're about to cross back into the home of the riders [00:27:00] where he initiates kissing and they kiss a little bit and then she has a very like visceral reaction when he starts touching her and her reasons why are not very clear, right, like in the text. Like she doesn't understand it but he then understands that she's a witch, and is like, okay, I totally respect that, and you don't want to give up your power, you

Kassi: yeah and how I read that scene -so there's like a meal and wine, and it's not really clear whether or not it's it's been doctored up and this is where, things could get sketchy where it's like uh, is this kind of like a date rape y situation?

Yeah, are these women getting dosed?

Is it just it's not really clear on that, but at this table they're sharing wine and then the couples get up and start going back to their respective tents and everybody's having a great time. Because again, these other women throughout the entire story are completely ensorcelled and I'd like to get to that topic in, at some point in the conversation but going back to this meal, and it's right after this where Herrel's like, hey let's go back to the tent, and then, starts getting a little bit smoochy, and then it's almost like you said she has this moment where she's like, wait, what am I doing?

I'm Gillan I don't know what I'm doing here. I don't know how to do this, there's been no conversation about what, where this is leading, what's happening and she ends up scratching him up, scratches him in the face, and that's where he's like oh because then he calls her out as a witch, and is like, okay, I could see why you wouldn't want to do this. It almost makes me wonder if not so much that Herrel was trying to pull a fast one on her but maybe this was just the norm of what was supposed to happen that night for everybody, and so he thought, oh, this is how everybody's progressing we're gonna consummate this before we cross over into our homelands and he had this moment where he was like, oh you're not okay with that, and then it was great, because he's like, oh, if you don't want to do this, we're not gonna do this.

Andrea Martucci: And he literally puts a sword between them in the bed which seems less about just creating a division and more symbolically him being like, I will hurt myself before I cross this line. You create a line, I'm respecting it.

I think something comes up later where --I should just call out the prose in this is not straightforward.

For various reasons, there's a lot of reading between the lines, which is why I think as we're talking about this, we're like my interpretation is, XYZ. There's a part later where he is talking something about I knew that if the others understood you had powers, they would be more threatened by you.

And so this was like a last chance before we crossed into our land where they would feel less threatened by you. And, I read that very kindly. , I don't think he's trying to take away something from her, but he does have a sense of how this can protect her.

And I think it's interesting to think about it in that context where [00:30:00] he has the best intentions. He obviously likes her and is into her, right? He totally respects her saying no, but he's also aware that one of the consequences of them not consummating their marriage that the other ones, the other guys, are going to continue to be a threat to her.

And it turns out that they actually split her into two people and leave the part of her with power behind and then take this ensorcelled shell of a person that then one of the --we also didn't mention, there's more guys than women and so there are some guys who like didn't get a partner and there's one in particular who's jealous and like basically he steals her away and Herrel doesn't know that this has happened at one point and literally is just like well I guess she went with a guy who's more powerful and that makes sense because why would you want to be with me.

So his lack of self confidence also works against him seeing what's happening you know because he's also been ensorcelled in a way to believe that he is less than he is.

And so he's like, okay, I guess that's what's happening. So in a way he did anticipate that her retaining her power was going to cause problems, but then he's like, all right, you chose, you know, like not in a bratty way, but him just being like, okay.

Kassi: Right, like him understanding Right.this isn't my choice to make, and we'll just have to figure out a different way to keep you safe, they never really get to that, and I guess I think it's worth maybe like going back and explaining that the way that Gillan even finds herself one of these brides is a classic switcheroo.

She's at the Abbey where a lot of noblewomen are trying to wait out this war that is coming to a conclusion. The riders who have made a bargain with the men of this land are coming to collect on that bargain, and the bargain is, hey, we will fight for you. But, when this is over, we get to take twelve and one, that's how they say it, so thirteen brides with us and we're gonna go home.

And these women are all getting chosen from various respectable noble houses and they're on their journey to meet up with the riders. They stop at the Abbey where a couple of these noble women are, and there's this woman there who is supposed to go, but she's hysterical about this idea and Gillan has, just this sense about her where it's oh, this would be my opportunity to escape this life, and then it gets described as the dusty years.

And it's like, oh, I like that, yeah, the dusty years of just, you're stagnating, you're not growing, nothing's changing and so she switches places with the girl who was supposed to go and she, this orphan, this nobody, ends up getting to be one of the brides, and at the choosing there's only 13 brides and more riders than brides, and while Herrel's cloak is chosen by Gillan, there's this other were who just thinks extremely highly of himself [00:33:00] and is completely embarrassed that he wasn't chosen at all, and so he starts going after Herrel Who he really sees as being, the lesser, of the weres, and, starts trying to, take these jabs at Herrel, like, how could you have possibly ended up with one of these brides and I don't have one.

And then during their journey he's doing all of this meddling. Every night, he's pulling some trick to try to slow Herrel down or cause problems or deceive, Gillan like the first night that they are camping out he puts some spell that causes Gillan to wake up and see Herrel in his wereform, like this mountain cat, thinking that, you know, Gillan's going to be so terrified she's going to leave Herrel right away and run into somebody else's arms and he'll be able to steal her.

Well, It doesn't work because she sees Herrel in his wereform and at that time she's like, I could do this. That's okay. Not a deal breaker. Okay. She still is able to reconcile that there's probably many facets of Herrel, and there's this man side and this beast side, and who is the main Herrel?

She doesn't know yet, but she's not gonna jump to conclusions and get too freaked out.

Eventually, she comes to encounter many of the riders in there were forms and it does really scare her and then she does start second guessing oh, man. Do I even know this Herrel at all?

Like I'm actually scared of him.

And so looking at this through a romance story lens there's all of this external conflict and difficulty getting between Herrel and Gillan like just getting to the point where start a marriage together and it's this other rider named I guess you'd pronounce his name, Hassel.

He is a hassle.

Andrea Martucci: He is a hassle.

Kassi: Yeah. And he is a sore loser as well. And so he's trying all of these things and that's what they're having to overcome.

You know, within the story there isn't a lot of time spent between just Herrel and Gillan on the first part of this journey.

They're either riding through the day, and there's just little snippets of conversation, and then it seems every night, she just conks out. Like, right away. And that could have been an opportunity in the story for her and Herrel to get to know each other. Like, If it was a romance novel in earnest, that would have been, a lot of the relationship building opportunity.

But she doesn't get that. And it's kind of interesting because one of the other characters seems to have that. One of the other brides, you know is chatting one day on the trail and it's like, oh yeah my dude is spilling all the tea on these other guys and, Hassel he's a jerk, watch out for him, and oh yeah like, you're a guy he is kind of the runt and, watch out kind of thing.

And that was a part in the story where I was like, oh, this character's getting all this time with her dude, but for some reason, Gillan in the story just goes straight to bed.

Andrea Martucci: Yeah. You know what's interesting? If you think about Gillan, among the other women I found it interesting, the back cover says this incorrectly, they say 12 brides, but it's always 12 and 1. They don't say 13, they say 12 and 1. And so there's always this apartness of [00:36:00] the one. Which is obvious, I think, that's Gillan, there she is.

But how Gillan understands that the other women on this journey are susceptible to this glamour, and she actually realizes at some point that this is why the riders wanted women who were highborn of this place, because then they would be assured that they're not magical, because that's like a thing that's known, and they wanted women who would be susceptible to their glamour, and on the one hand, the other women seem much happier throughout this entire thing, right?

Like they're definitely taking an opiate of masses, if you will, that just makes them content with what's happening. They see everything in a way that they have been told to see things, but in a way that makes them feel content with their situation, and that felt like a metaphor for marriage and patriarchy and this idea of going into marriage and believing what you're told about how this is gonna fulfill you and, this is how you should see your life and your partner like as handsome and a protector and provider and blah, blah, blah, and the beautiful life that you have that has been provided for you.

And it's yours as long as you don't ask questions and you don't try to take control of your story and you don't expect more from your partner than what your partner wants you to see.

And so I, yeah, I thought that one I forget her name, but the one character that she has the closest relationship with the other woman who does seem to have somewhat of a relationship with her husband, once they get married, and she likes this character. She doesn't see her as maybe silly as some of the other women.

But I think it brings up an interesting question, especially you see all the things that Gillan goes through in the story where you're like wondering, you're like that was a lot harder and painful and perilous. Was having the power and agency worth it?

And I know that's a that's a shitty question to ask, but I think that if we don't give credit to the appeal of the other side then we always look askance at the people who choose that other way or whatever go along with that other way as if obviously this other path is more desirable.

It's like is it?

Kassi: Yeah, it on my reread of this story for this conversation the story of the movie The Matrix popped into my head the blue pill, red pill would you rather be blissfully ignorant or would you rather know the truth, but you're also gonna have to wear ratty thermal underwear and eat gruel every day?

Like that, that kind of device or whatever popped into my mind here, and it's interesting because Gillan, while she cares about these other women she also doesn't feel obligated to try to get them to see the truth, either. she recognized she's like wow, they do look really happy, and them knowing would probably just put them in danger like, what are these [00:39:00] other riders that are not as level headed and compassionate as Herrel, like what are they gonna do if they find out that ya know, their gals can see through the glamour.

And not a lot of time is spent on that, but you never get any like resolution on what ends up happening to these other women. Do they end up okay over time? Does the glamour start to fade? Who knows? We'll never know, but we do know that for Gillan, even though there's times where she's like, man, it would just be a lot easier if I could just see things the way these other women are seeing them.

She also is kind of like, I can never do that because I am who I am. I'm this witch. I have this power. I know these things that I know. I have to find another path. I have to make it through this a different way.

Andrea Martucci: Yeah, when we get towards the end of the story, she realizes that she has been split off and that there is a part of her that is going along as these other women have been essentially with Hassel and I think the Smart Bitches Trashy Books review touches on this, where it's like, we don't really know if Hassel is assaulting the other her sexually, while this we don't know what's happening. This story, I don't know, is not like terribly interested in going there which is fine, but we do understand that there is like this part of her that is being put through something that she did not consent to and that that other self doesn't really have agency in the situation.

And I think that the book does understand that to be a violence that has been done unto her, like the whole person.

It goes through this like extended kind of journey where she, by herself for the majority of it, has to go through all these trials to cross over into the land and she doesn't realize it at first but it becomes clear that she does actually need to reunite with her other self otherwise she will disappear, she will go away.

And all of these trials really rely on her trusting herself, trusting her abilities and her power. It's a lot of I have the will, I have the power. At one point she realizes that she can move things with her mind. At one point I think it's implied that she can become invisible or but she definitely has like power over her surroundings.

And then eventually Herrel, like once Herrel realizes what's going on, he comes and joins her, but it's not like he comes and saves her. He comes, joins her, they continue on, he maybe tells her a little bit of information about the peril that she's in. But, I think it, like, definitely becomes this extended meditation on identity, like there's a lot of "Who is Gillan? Who is Gillan?"

She ends up in this situation where there's like a thousand of her around and she has to find the true self and she spends a lot of time thinking about Herrel on this journey as well. Who is he to me? Is he the big cat? Is he the handsome human? Is he the pointy chinned rider?

Maybe he's not just one of them. Maybe he's all of them. So I think this book is just like very interested in thinking through identity and that we don't really know ourselves or other [00:42:00] people and I think the message is trust? I don't know. What are your thoughts on that?

Kassi: Yeah that's certainly a big part of story, and the way that Herrel gets described at one point as Gillan is trying to internally process: Okay who is Herrel? She gets this idea in her head that she's like, oh he's not even just two sides of a sword.

He's like a multi faceted gem. It's not just this and that. It's all of these things, and some of these things I've met, and some of these, things about Herrel I recognize I've probably never even got to encounter yet. Okay, what do I know?

So far, he treats me with respect, he seems to care about my well being, okay I'm going to continue trying to work together so that hopefully, I don't have to always be doing this by myself. Hopefully, even though I always will be my own person, I'll get to, try to finally, be part of, more than just me.

I'll get to be part of this relationship. and I thought that was an also interesting coming, like I was not around in 1965. I cannot claim that I've read a lot of, commentary on what it was like, but I'm pretty impressed that, the ideas in this book, came out of an author writing in 1965.

Andrea Martucci: Yeah, I, you hit on something interesting there about not wanting to be alone, and wanting to be in a relationship. Part of a community, maybe? Although I think basically at the end they're like you know, we don't really want to be part of this community,

Kassi: Yeah.

Andrea Martucci: want to be part of that community.

I guess we're gonna have to go find some place to be but we have each other. And I think romance as a genre, which this is not really trying to be a romance. There's that. But romance as a genre often gets criticized as glamorizing heterosexual marriage and pair bonding, especially within capitalism where you become this kind of like family unit that's separate from community, like you become separate from your families and create this new thing, this like production unit. As opposed to a more community centered your marriage relationship doesn't have to be everything to you. It's one part of a larger experience that you have.

So I'm kind of like aware of that criticism. But at the same time, I think in this text, it's like Gillan goes from being alone to having a partner she trusts. And so it doesn't feel like the evolution is her getting pulled away from a community into a relationship.

It's that she finds a kindred spirit that she can rely on and have an equal relationship with.

Kassi: Yeah, she no longer has to dwell on the sense of being alienated all the time, whether it was being alienated at the Abbey because she was never going to become an Abbess that just was not her path, or being like an outsider amongst these [00:45:00] brides because she could see the truth where they couldn't and they were just like having a great time.

And now it's like finally she doesn't have to just feel so alien, she's got Herrel, and they can figure stuff out together. And again, that trust. I also trust that Herrel's gonna let me continue to maintain my agency while we go have our adventures.

Andrea Martucci: Two things before we wrap up. I want to talk about how this works as a romance novel, even though we know it's not intended to be one, but then also, to come back to romantasy.

You were talking about the books that you enjoy reading now, and and that you have read all the shapeshifter books, and that I thought it was very interesting. You were talking about you like to see like this person in relationship with a character who's like completely different and alien and other.

So I definitely feel like this book fits into the things you're interested in, right? But this book also, it feels so different from shapeshifter romance as we've come to see it evolve over the last 20 years and I guess Andre Norton considered this a Beauty and the Beast story which I think is interesting because I always take the Beast to be, yes, a man stuck in this form, but not like going back and forth, not evolving, like stuck in this form and angry and powerful where I don't think that like matches Herrel at all.

I don't know if I feel the Beauty and the Beast dynamic. Even If we're going back to the whole like Psyche Cupid aspect. I don't really see it. Do you see it?

Kassi: No, not at all, and I was really surprised that the author themselves would describe this story as being a similar concept. To me, not no, not at all. The only crossover element is that, this love interest isn't human.

Otherwise, I don't, I really don't see the comparison there.

Andrea Martucci: Okay, I am also maybe I'm going to contradict myself because I was thinking back to conversations with people who are, like, more familiar with the original tale. And I do think the original tale had something more to do with arranged marriage and not knowing your partner. If we're going into that, which I'll admit, I don't have a great memory of what the, or 300, 400 years ago version of Beauty and the Beast was like, but it does seem to really be thinking about arranged marriage and not knowing your partner or like trying to really like figure out who they are.

I'm sitting here, I'm like, oh boy, have I just been influenced by Disney's Beauty and the Beast. To the point where I'm like well, it's not that.

Kassi: Yeah and this is like a completely different theory on where this comparison came from, but also 1960s, were there just not a lot of other kind of similar stories?

to make a comparison with

Andrea Martucci: Hmm.

Kassi: and that was just the closest the author was able to think of?

Andrea Martucci: That's an interesting question. I'm trying to think like what I know of culturally happening in the 1960s. I have no idea. If somebody is listening to this and [00:48:00] knows, I would love for you to tell us, Yeah, cause I, I have no idea.

Okay, so then if we think about this in the context of, where romantasy is today -- have you read any of the high fantasy romantasy type stuff that's big now?

Kassi: I would categorize the ACOTAR series as that and full disclosure I read or listened to a couple of those stories to see what the buzz was about. I don't personally really love it either from like the story perspective or the writing itself and that's just 100 percent me. I know so many people really love those stories um but that I'm familiar with i've not started reading Fourth Wing because i've gotten a whiff that it could be similar to ACOTAR in the sense of like romantasy, but not necessarily extremely well done romantasy.

Andrea Martucci: I think it's like the world building is always quite light in those books. So if we're thinking about what Andre Norton did , you said before we began, like, how you think that Andre Norton told a much better romantasy story in 200 ish pages compared to authors today are, like, writing these 600 page tomes, and, it feels like it's the world building It's trying to do something unique and instead of a lot of romantasy today feels very like pastiche y, or a collage, like it's just like borrowing things and it's referencing them instead of building on top of them.

Like it's I'm taking this and you know what it is already so I don't really need to explain it, and then I'm taking this and you also know what this is so I'm not going to explain it, and it ends up feeling, to me, I haven't read every romantasy that's being published today, but the ones I have read, just feel like we're not really here for the fantasy.

Kassi: Yeah, or necessarily the plot.

Andrea Martucci: Yes like it becomes a vehicle for the romance,

Kassi: right which is that can be okay.

That's fine, but then why does this have to be 600 pages of all of these trials and tribulations that are not completely formulated?

Andrea Martucci: Right, or like aren't advancing things in a meaningful way, yeah,

Kassi: And then on top of that, you want to throw in contemporary English vernacular, the dialogue, and then I'm just completely taken out of the story.

Andrea Martucci: Yeah. You warned me before we came into Year of the Unicorn that the vernacular was, like, trying to do this old timey, oldie English type thing that it took a little bit you have to get used to it. How did you feel that served the story?

Kassi: It basically did, for this story, what I think needs to be done in other high fantasy storytelling where the dialogue might not be, like, the most comfortable [00:51:00] to have to read through and process because it's different than how we just plainly speak but it fits the world and it fits like the universe that the story is in. On the reread I realized it's not even just the dialogue between the characters it's most of like the description or the internal dialogue of the main character it's a little bit different, it's not like trying to read Shakespeare, but then again, it's not just the most straightforward.

And I actually I like that the story did that if the alternative is everything is very like I guess modern, easy to digest, easy to understand, but the dialogue just doesn't fit the universe that the story's supposed to be written in.

Andrea Martucci: Mhm. Yeah. hear you on that. Did you ever read Meredith Pierce?

Kassi: What are some of the titles?

Andrea Martucci: There's a series called The Darkangel. It's like a trilogy. I think the first one's called The Darkangel.

Kassi: I don't think so.

Andrea Martucci: okay, It feels like a fantasy, and then you find out it's a sci fi -- Eventually, you find out.

Kassi: Okay.

Andrea Martucci: I think there are parts of the heroine's journey in those books that feel very similar, and those were probably written the 90s, maybe? Those books feel like they're building on what Andre Norton was doing, where it's definitely really rethinking the world. It's not just like Hobbit lite it's like a unique world and the storytelling is not super linear and straightforward, right? There are times there where I was like, oh, what's happening?

Oh and there's obviously like a different vernacular, but I think there's also maybe like the distance of time where a book that does that written in the 90s feels more accessible to me than a book doing that written in the 60s because even though it's not the 1600s, like Shakespeare, there's just enough evolution.

Where it's like difference upon difference, whereas like the nineties, it's difference upon what I know.

Kassi: Yeah, but having not lived through the 60s, it's like, oh, would this have not been as strange to process back then as it is now just based off of how people were communicating or were writing and actually this made me think of a similar situation where was the English language getting written you know just a little bit differently where today our language has you know started changing enough that It now feels a little unfamiliar.

And that example for me, I have a 2-year-old and he loves the book Corduroy by Don Freeman. And I will stumble over reading that to him because the structure of the sentence, while like it's all English and the sentences mean the same thing now that they probably meant then it's the order and the placement of certain words in a sentence that kind of has me tripping up occasionally.

Also being like, Oh, this is a kid's book. Why am I having a hard time reading this out loud? And so [00:54:00] and and it got me thinking, it's Oh, maybe this is how you would have written this story. These are the words you would have chosen, the order you would have put them in at that time when this book was written, which is, I think, about the similar time, sometime in the sixties.

Don't quote me on that. And so I wonder, maybe that is part of it. Maybe it wouldn't feel so strange reading this when it was written compared to trying to read it now.

Andrea Martucci: Yeah. I think that definitely has something to do with it. I think we probably underestimate the extent to which the norms in which we communicate have evolved so quickly. Maybe at an accelerated rate since we have the internet. Everything feels to have sped up and just gotten so much bigger very quickly, but yeah, I mean like anytime you watch like an old movie and you're like, Is that how people talked in the 40s or the 60s or is this like a movie thing? And I think sometimes it's a movie thing, like the same way that like we watch a movie today and we're like, people aren't really like that, but it's accessible to us in a way that I think like the movies of the time were accessible to people.

It's very interesting to go back and just think about that as a modern reader, is it wow what was it about the people of the time -what was different, what has changed since then that made this a very different experience for them?

Maybe along with that, so as romance readers, we have certain romance conventions that we start to associate with romance, right? Like we have this familiarity with the world of romance and so like A, we see things that maybe other people wouldn't necessarily see or associate as oh that's like a romance trope or what have you. But also we have different expectations going into a text. So as a romance reader, what is the case you would make for if this works as a romance novel?

Kassi: Yeah. I think that this is as much a romance story as it is a fantasy story because you have your central love story between In this case, in this story, two characters, Gillan and Herrel. That is pretty central to the story and the progress of the story moving forward.

would consider it a happily ever after, but maybe some happy for now.

Cause you don't really know what ends up happening with Gillan and Herrel. And also this could be a potential turn off for some, there is no on page sex between Gillan and Herrel in this story. So you just have to imagine that they eventually go off and start doing that. and having a great time.

But they definitely get happily ever after happy for now. Like they defeat the challenge of Hassel and all of his bullshit. They are able to leave the pack, go out on their own, they feel really optimistic about their future. So definitely has your H E A.

And then there's also in the case of this book, mostly external conflict that they have to overcome to end up getting to be [00:57:00] together.

And in my mind, that is why the story, while probably not published as a romance, published as a fantasy, is actually also a romance.

And people can fight me on that.

Andrea Martucci: I think, okay, because like when you proposed this I was like, but is it a romance novel? And you were like, yes, I think so. So I was definitely thinking about that as I was reading it, and while it is well known, I like my romances spicy. I am capable of enjoying a story without on page sex. But I think that it was still satisfying as a romance novel because I think if you pulled the romantic part the relationship out of this story it wouldn't be a story like it's not just about them finding their way back to physically be together or survive the story.

I think it's also, the only way they're able to do that is by their relationship evolving and getting to

an aligned place. So it's about them doing that together, right? Not just her surviving. And again as much as it's not like they spent a lot of time having deep, intimate conversations canoodling, but there's enough of these moments where Herrel is just ride or die.

He thinks that she's rejected him when they're like split and she's able to come back into the other body for a second and she's like, Herrel, and he realizes instantly what's happened and runs to her and so she sees that. Like it's not just what he does that moves the story forward it's also these moments I think in the book that the book recognizes how important those moments are for growing their relationship and having us as the reader see Herrel as a good partner for her and a swoony partner, particularly in contrast with like literally every other man in this story.

He's just, he's the best. Yeah, I just, yeah, I really did enjoy it. And like I was telling you before, there were definitely times where I was like, I don't know what's happening. I don't actually know, but do you ever do that thing where when you experience that in a book, you're like, okay, I'm not going to sit here and reread the same sentence over and over. The only way out is through. You just have to keep reading and just let it wash over you.

Kassi: Yeah, and you're like, if I just accept that I don't totally understand what's happening here or cannot imagine this description, but I keep going, it might end up falling into place for me. And I will say, so I read this a couple years ago, and I think I felt the same way. There were parts of it that I remember thinking, oh, okay, I don't really understand what's going on here, but I'm gonna keep going.

And on the reread, it was like, oh, this makes a lot more sense now. So it might be one of those, and I know a ton of people just refuse to re read books, that's totally fine, or maybe the story isn't interesting enough to warrant a re read, but I will say for me, re reading it helped me, felt really clear on exactly for the most part, what was happening.

Andrea Martucci: Okay, Kassi, thank you so much for bringing this book to talk about, because I had never [01:00:00] heard of it before, and so I think it was really interesting to talk about, especially as something that we could think about as romantic fantasy that is in dialogue with things that are being written today as such a popular genre, so I think really timely, interesting book to talk about.

Was there anything else you wanted to say about Year of the Unicorn? A book with no unicorns in it?

Kassi: We just have to reiterate, I think, comparative to what we're seeing today in romantasy, this book, very demure, very mindful, very cutesy.

Andrea Martucci: Exactly. Exactly. Okay. So Kassi, what other books are you reading and enjoying right now?

Kassi: Let's see.

At the time of this conversation after rereading Year of the Unicorn, I'm actually a little bit in between books. I've most recently read The Orc and the Innkeeper - Elderberry Falls? That's the series by Cora Crane.

I am also excited about anticipating the release of Ironling, which is the sequel to Halfling, by S. E. Wendell, I think that's how you say the last name.

Andrea Martucci: Yes. I think I started reading a book by S. E. Wendell.

Kassi: And this one is also like a, Lord of the Rings y ish universe, old timey romantasy. Way heavier on the romance and the sexiness than Year of the Unicorn, though. So the sequel to that, Ironling, is coming out later this week. Very excited about that.

Andrea Martucci: Oh, and question about The Orc and the Innkeeper. I've seen a lot of these books that seem to be like cozy romantasy? That's, do you know what I mean? And they feel like they're coming off of what was that Travis Baldree book that kind of kicked off this cozy romance fantasy -- Legends and Lattes,

Kassi: Yes, okay yeah.

Andrea Martucci: yeah they have a very similar cover style, where the cover feels more cozy than intense adventure Super sexy, but I'm curious, like, just speaking of Cora Crane's books, where do they fall on the spice scale? Are they sexier?

Kassi: I think the sexiness is there, but the coziness is also very high. Even though it's a fantasy it's supposed to be pretty slice of life y,

Where it's not too heavy, and again, going back to, this constant question around, like, why do we like what we like?

Why is what's popular? I think you're seeing a lot of coziness like getting consumed. And also, you need to be careful. I don't have any data to back this up. I haven't seen sales statistics of what's selling. I wish I did. I'd be interested. But among my romance circles, things are leaning more towards the coziness.

And again, you have to ask yourself, it's is it because in our real lives, there's just so much heaviness on us? Like, all the time, right now, and we need cozy, as opposed to Finley Finn writes these really great, [01:03:00] but very heavy, and sometimes very dark orc, romantasy stories and I could not crack one of those open right now.

I'm just not emotionally in the space to do it I need some cozy right now.

So yeah, so I would definitely describe The Orc and the Innkeeper as cozy, slice of lifey. It definitely has a lot of tropes from contemporary small town romance as well.

But, that one of the characters is an orc, the other is a human. So a little bit different than your normal small town cozy story.

Andrea Martucci: That's, I love the slice of life because I think especially like when it feels like you never get to finish anything or everything feels so precarious. It's like, wouldn't it be great to just have a little cupcake shop? I mean, A little tavern in a little fantasy world and all the other proprietors in town and maybe like we struggle a little bit, but we know that we're going to make it.

And all I have to worry about is making my beer and sweeping the floor and I'm done. I did it. I honestly, I feel like that's like a slice of life. Like why it's so satisfying because it's like, we never get to finish anything or have that sense of, I'm going to say smallness, but that sounds like I'm being mean about it, but like truly it feels sometimes like things are just like so out of control where it's like, it'd be nice to only have to worry about this.

Kassi: Yeah, absolutely. And as opposed to like your typical space opera romance where the stakes are so high and, the future of the universe is riding on whatever problem has to get solved or whatever. It's not right now. Let's not do that now. Let's just, yeah, like you said let's just worry about making beer.

Andrea Martucci: yeah, or bread,

Kassi: Or bread.

Andrea Martucci: Like, why did we all become obsessed with making bread at the beginning of the pandemic? Something we can control, something we can master.

Kassi: Yeah, something that you can fail fast, you can fail cheap.

Andrea Martucci: Exactly. Sorry, Was there another book you wanted to mention?

Kassi: The other one that I am really excited about the author, Victoria Aveline, I think that's how you say the last name, she has the Clecanian series, which is like a sci fi fantasy women are taken from Earth to this other planet and her book Bewitching Rhaego, we don't know how to say his name over here, that is coming out sometime this fall. We don't know when yet, but I'm very excited. That's like a seven book series, so if anybody's looking for series with many books in it, following different characters of the same world and you like sci fi monster romance, I recommend that one.

Andrea Martucci: Awesome. Kassi, I really appreciate you being here on the podcast today, especially short notice. But also recommending such an interesting book to talk about. I hope if anybody picks up this book because we talked about it, let us know.

Kassi: Please do.

Andrea Martucci: Yeah. [01:06:00] All right. Thanks, Kassi.

Kassi: Thank you.

Andrea Martucci: Hey, thanks for spending time with me today. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate or review on your favorite podcast app or tell a friend. Check out Shelflovepodcast.com for transcripts and other resources. If you want regular written updates from Shelf Love, you can increasingly find me over at Substack.

Read occasional updates and short essays about romance at shelflovepodcast.Substack.com. Thank you to Shelf Love's $20 a month Patreon supporters: Gail, Copper Dog Books, and Frederick Smith. Have a great day. Bye