Falling in Love with Your Monster

Short Description

Morgan and Isabeau from the Whoa!mance podcast join to discuss the 2024 film “Your Monster.” We discuss how the movie explores female rage and personal discovery, drawing parallels with romance novel conventions. We are divided in our opinions: did the film succeed in merging romance and horror? The conversation highlights how individual experiences and tastes shape reception of the film, making for an engaging discussion on the intersection of romance, rage, and narrative structure.

Tags

crossover podcast, film discussion

Show Notes

Morgan and Isabeau from the Whoa!mance podcast join to discuss the 2024 film “Your Monster.” We discuss how the movie explores female rage and personal discovery, drawing parallels with romance novel conventions. We are divided in our opinions: did the film succeed in merging romance and horror? The conversation highlights how individual experiences and tastes shape reception of the film, making for an engaging discussion on the intersection of romance, rage, and narrative structure.

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Guests: Whoa!mance (Morgan and Isabeau)

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Morgan & Isabeau joined me in episode 076 to discuss Strange Love by Ann Aguirre

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Episode 089 to Problematize Romance

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108 She-Devil (1989): Who's Entitled To Be Selfish in Love & Life? (Whoa!mance spectacular)

Transcript

[00:00:00]

Andrea Martucci: Hello And welcome to Shelf Love, a podcast about romance novels and how they reflect, explore, challenge, and shape desire. I'm your host Andrea Martucci, and on this episode, I am joined by Morgan and Isabeau from my favorite romance podcast, Whoa!mance.

Morgan: Get out of here.

Andrea Martucci: Other than my own, of course, um, thank you for being here visually, not just auditorially.

Morgan: You're welcome.

Isabeau: We're doing it

Andrea Martucci: We're doing it!

We're doing it. So we are three podcasters who've been podcasting for, in my case, five years in your case, seven.

Morgan: Yeah. Seven. Seven

Andrea Martucci: seven years, seven years, and, this is us experimenting with a new medium. I think we're all a little bit nervous but we're doing it. We're experimenting because life is about growth.

Isabeau: Oh,

Morgan: right.

Andrea Martucci: It is.

Valerie: Editors Note: You know that saying? When man makes plans, god laughs.

Andrea Martucci: And today we're going to talk about Your Monster, a 2024 film by Carolyn Lindy. It's not a romance novel or a movie about romance novels, but I hope it has some interesting things to say about romance and romance novels, we'll see.

Morgan: In particular, the stories we tell about romance.

Andrea Martucci: The stories we tell about romance. Yeah, I like it.

Morgan: I think I just peaked. I'm so sorry.

Isabeau: That was the sampler before we get into the hors d'oeuvres. It was very good. I would love a recap of this film I watched last night.

Andrea Martucci: Morgan, What is this film about? You are a resident film expert.

Morgan: I watched this movie before being invited to talk about it. But this movie is about a young aspiring theater actress in modern day New York City. She's in a relationship with this guy, playwright who's writing a musical about does it matter what it's about?

It's well, yeah, it does. It's about boarding school girls on an adventure of sexual discovery. She finds out she has cancer, and her boyfriend predictably leaves her. After treatment and surgery, she moves back into her mom's townhouse in New York City. Her mom is a retiree. She's abroad.

She's only got one friend who's super busy all the time as well. So she's mostly left to her own devices in her mom's home. And lo and behold, she discovers she's not the only tenant of this townhouse. There is A monster in her midst.

Isabeau: Correct.

Morgan: this monster and her start off, they don't like each other too much.

He looks mostly human, but dresses like he's in an indie band in 2005. All crucial details. As she starts to recover, she is encouraged by the monster to be more [00:03:00] honest with herself about what she wants. And that honesty also includes living in that truth. So when her ex boyfriend casts a popular TV actress in the lead of this musical that he promised to her, she insists that she would like a role, and she gets the part of understudy after a pretty blazing audition, and then also begging.

Over their friendship, it's enemies to friends to lovers with the monster, she discovers her ex boyfriend is having an affair with somebody.

Should I get into the spoilers?

Andrea Martucci: Yeah.

I mean, this movie has been out for literal months. If you, you've had a chance to watch it. just go for it.

Morgan: We Okay. Because I think the ending's crucial to understanding what we're talking about here.

One night at halloween party she walks in on her boyfriend having sex with who she assumes is the lead actress and gets very angry.

The monster on her behalf, full phantom of the opera's it, and opens a trap door underneath her inflagrante ex, and he plummets and breaks his arm. So he gets his comeuppance. So her and the monster, make love.

They have a real relationship. We then discover over the course of this production, her ex boyfriend, does not want her anywhere near the play.

And he ends up having sex with her before he fires her.

She has to go home and tell the monster Hey, I messed up, I had sex with him, and also I'm fired.

And the monster's grieving, very upset about it, but then he's like, you gotta go back to that thing.

She's like, I'm gonna go back to the theater, and then she discovers that her only friend was the actual person who was having sex with her ex boyfriend, and she ends up going out on stage and just like assuming this role during the Broadway debut of this musical. Meanwhile the monster enters the theater and brutally stabs her ex boyfriend slash

writer and director of this piece during the intermission.

Isabeau: Slashes his throat out with his claws.

Morgan: Yeah

then this is super cut with her singing the emotional climax of this musical.

And then as things settle in, we realized that it was in fact she who murdered the director and she is out on stage covered in blood. His dead body is next to her. end of film.

Andrea Martucci: And in fact, your monster is within her.

Yes. Dun, dun,

Morgan: Yeah. And, And is is homicidal.

Isabeau: Yeah, I think the monster was her anger, and they had an intimate violent relationship this is what happens when you don't learn to emotionally regulate.

Andrea Martucci: Yeah,

Morgan: Well, Maybe not this exact scenario, but

Andrea Martucci: hopefully,[00:06:00]

a bad boyfriend in intermission, honestly, tracks.

I need to know where you guys fall on it. Did you enjoy it? Are you like, this had some interesting things to say, or this was a hackneyed piece of trash?

Andrea Martucci: Where do you

fall on

this very multidimensional

multi-dimensional spectrum Yeah. I need to know.

Morgan: I wouldn't say I would watch it again unless called onto a podcast, I wouldn't say I enjoyed it

Andrea Martucci: Okay.

Morgan: Yeah. Yeah.

Isabeau: to throw a monkey wrench in that. I loved it every single minute. It felt like it was written for me at exactly this time in my life, but also me at 21 the theater kid in me just fucking loved all of that. Andrea said earlier, before we started recording that this had been a short film before it was a feature.

And I'm like, there are definitely a couple of points where I'm like. Oh, this started as a student film, or I can see the seams, but I was so far up this film's butt I forgave it everything. I loved the monster. It reminded me of the, Disney original film from 1999, Don't Look Under the Bed. And it also reminded me of the Beauty and the Beast series with the woman who played Sarah Connor in Terminator. And

Perfect one for one monster makeup with that guy,

I wasn't mad about any of that. I loved that I didn't have to be mad at the beautiful blonde, the famous TV star who gets the part written for Laura, I didn't want it to be that easy. When I didn't have to be mad at her and got to be mad at her shitty friend instead, that felt really good.

Maisie, we should have known that she sucked. She did from the beginning. I wholeheartedly loved this. This felt like something that was particularly for me. Bowled right down my alley. Perfect strike. .

Andrea Martucci: I was the one who invited you guys to talk about this, so maybe it's not a surprise that I really enjoyed it and thought it was interesting. Similar to what you said, Isabeau, I saw the seams and sometimes I was like,

I'm not a hundred percent sure. If that ties up with a neat, tidy bow.

But it made me think about a lot of things. I thought it was visually interesting, I'm also a musical theater nerd. That part I really liked. I thought it was inventive. When we come back to talking about the ending, the more I thought about the ending, the more I was like. If you take this movie super literally, I feel like it sucks a lot of the fun out of it. I feel like you have to go with it as a, magical realism vibe. It's more about what the movie is saying than being realistic. We're not supposed to think about her going to jail at the end.

In my opinion, that's not the point of this movie.

And that's what makes me feel like there's a connection to romance novels, among other things. Yeah.

That was my jumping off point. I watched this a couple weeks ago and Morgan was like, I just watched this.

And then I watch it again today, and in retrospect, knowing what was [00:09:00] coming, I will say, there are so many clues. I suspected the monster was her at some point. If you go back and watch it again from the beginning, it's even more there, like what this movie is trying to say as is usually the case. Morgan, I guess I'm maybe not surprised because you liked Nosferatu and I didn't. Maybe we just have diametrically opposed taste in movies.

Morgan: Maybe.

Isabeau: I loved I loved Nosferatu,

Andrea Martucci: Now you're in the middle.

Isabeau: yeah,

Andrea Martucci: You're the venn diagram

Morgan: did you have time to see a three hour movie?

Isabeau: oh, listen, I wasn't going to sleep on that. I love every version of Nosferatu especially the weird one from the seventies.

Andrea Martucci: Anyways, we don't have time to talk about female sexual pleasure right now. And that's for, I'm just kidding. We always have time to talk about that. Okay. Let's start with the ending.

There are parts of this movie that follow a romance beat of, a developing relationship between the heroine, Laura, and the monster who is just the monster, a monster,

Isabeau: She calls a monster capital M.

Andrea Martucci: Right. So it kind of follows the beat of enemies to lovers they're at odds and then they start getting along and they're learning things about each other and and then there's a rift, a black moment if you will, And then they come together triumphantly at the end.

And then And then we realize the monster is not a second person. It's all Laura. So it's not a romance, right? Because it's one person. Or is it?

Morgan: Or is it? Because is this, is the central idea of romance about like personal discovery via another being?

Does, is another being defined as like physically separate? I don't think so. I think time and string theory is going to prove out that it doesn't have to be.

Isabeau: I also agree with this where it's like, because she had disassociated from her anger so strongly it manifested as an entirely other being, especially when she's just survived cancer and has this extremely shitty boyfriend and extremely shitty situation happening to her you would rediscover one of the emotions you'd turned off and it would manifest in a way that felt entirely disassociated from you in that way, way almost feels like, a second chance romance. And they're like weird history that he keeps bringing up.

Where he's always been in her closet or there's this lovely scene. Where she's on her bed and he's under it, like a monster under the bed. And they're just talking. This is so cute and adorable getting to know your anger, especially as a woman. That rang my bell.

I don't care if the monster's real or not she's discovering herself. That's great. I'm into it.

Morgan: Can I talk about something? One of the romance things In this film is the erratic stakes he's a monster, and she talks about how terrifying he is, even though he looks like [00:12:00] the lead singer with that song Soul Asylum, I think is what it's called, Runaway Train.

She's always telling us how scary he is.

Oh no!

Ruth: At this point, Andrea loses wifi. Morgan and Isabeau can hear each other but can't hear or see Andrea, and Morgan and Isabeau are frozen for Andrea. Hilariously, everyone is still being recorded. Look for the clips on social media of the absolutely chaotic outtakes from this segment. Eventually, the trio is successfully reconnected.

Andrea Martucci: Oh my god. I'm sorry. After I made a big deal about this being such a great platform. Such shame.

Morgan: That's how it goes.

Andrea Martucci: That's what the editing is for. So the thing that made me think about romance novels quite a bit with this is this is something you guys talk about in Whoa!Mance quite a bit the female self insert, right?

So if we have an assumed female reader reading an MF heterosexual romance we believe that female reader is inserting themselves into the female main character. But I often find that I'm taking just as much enjoyment from inhabiting the male character's perspective, particularly when they have a lot of power, physical, economic, social, cultural, etc.

When they're just doing whatever the hell they want, they can navigate situations in a way that I, as a woman in the society that we live in, don't feel like I can do that. And whatever happens in the relationship between those two people, where, oftentimes, the heroine gets access to some of that power and that ability to say, fuck you to mean relatives or quit the shitty job taking back some agency I'm enjoying inhabiting multiple perspectives there.

It's not just about the female. So I almost feel like when I'm reading a romance novel, it's a very similar experience to Your Monster where there is this relationship between two beings, but it doesn't matter ultimately if they're the same person because I as the reader

Morgan: You are the single entity.

Andrea Martucci: Yes. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

Morgan: I really like that.

Maybe I'm just not aware, like I've been taught to be self conscious about over identifying with the female main character. Maybe I haven't noticed myself doing that as a reader, identifying male main character.

Isabeau: I feel like there are certain ones I do it more with. I know what you're describing, especially in like historical romance novels, oftentimes, the male main character is more exciting and interesting than the female character.

The female main character has to grow into someone more interesting, or find the part of herself that she's closed off, and that part of it isn't interesting, and what the male main character, part of what he's bringing is this not only the agency of saying, fuck you, but inhabiting that for them, like deploying their privilege on behalf of the female character until she finds her own legs or wings, whatever metaphor you want to use there.

I think this happened [00:15:00] more in older romance novels. I'm not seeing it happen as much now I'm identifying with both in the same way that I used to, but I'm also older, I've learned more life has beaten me down. All of that to say

whenever I got that the monster was her.

There were a couple of moments where I was like I don't think this is an actual other entity. I think this is her. It became clear when she's holding the door shut of her closet after she's confessed she's had sex with the bad ex boyfriend who sucks in every conceivable way.

And the monster is freaking out amongst her childhood things. He has a burrow in her closet full of her stuffed animals and her childhood clothes he's tearing it apart and roaring. She leaves because it's scary,

it's the beast yelling at Belle. It's all those scenes. But when she shuts the door on him, it's she's shutting the door on her childhood, she's shutting the door on all of those feelings inside of herself, I was like, Ah, you're disassociating your strongest feelings because they scare you.

Let's see what you do next now that I am aware of this. And, in some ways, I was disappointed if the monster was an other entity, that he was, like, beholden to weird thoughts about sexual mores. Like, why would a monster who's been living rent free in her mom's extravagant New York townhouse have sexual mores?

I'm less mad if it's her denying her anger.

Andrea Martucci: Because she betrayed herself, right? But that's why the monster is mad because that was her not acknowledging this person hurt her and holding him accountable. It's backsliding, right? Yeah, I feel like understanding that it's all her. The emotional dynamic between them is even more interesting to me,

Because it's essentially a love story of a woman accessing her emotions, her anger, her ability to believe that she deserves to be loved and that she shouldn't put up with other people's shit, that she deserves to have a friend who gives her full attention and who will call other people on their bullshit instead of excusing it, who will be there for her and support her and forgive her.

Andrea Martucci: There's parts with the food, like Chinese food giving into her hunger or sexual desire, I feel like it's emotional, but also just wanting, desire.

Isabeau: I feel like this screenwriter understands romance novels at core, there are so many Easter eggs, if that's what you want to call them, or like homages to like other kinds of romance.

There's so many good montage moments. The Chinese food is a really good one. At the Halloween party you see how upset Laura is where her ex is flirting with the pretty girl and she's getting really drunk. She's also just recovered from cancer.

So I'm worried about her physically, right? The night wears on, the more anxious I became on her behalf. And I'm just like waiting. Like the monster has to come rescue her. When's he coming? Finally, when it reaches the [00:18:00] apex of my anxiety for her safety and comfort. He shows up at the top of the stairs looking down at her I was like, fuck yes, the Duke has entered, as Morgan said, like the straight up fan of the opera, he's come to rescue her from both herself and making bad choices, but also this like shitty party that she's at.

And I was like, this is excellent. Everything about this. And the fact that it's like also then, her deeper, more powerful emotions then that whole scene reads differently with that knowledge, but it doesn't read worse for me. Although, I do like that the monster shows up like that.

Morgan: But the monster shows up and then maims a human being. I mean, I just don't know, I don't think this movie is clear on what it wants to say about rage, because the rage ends up committing acts of violence, and I guess you could argue, when her monster, breaks the guy's arm and later rips his throat out.

She's put the monster aside to pursue this other person. She tells him she's going to the bathroom, but she's actually following her ex

Isabeau: yeah.

Morgan: That doesn't change the fact it's the monster committing these heinous acts. There's slippage in what it's trying to say.

Andrea Martucci: I guess like the violence to me, She literally rips his throat out at the end. And like, I laughed do you know what I mean? The actor who plays the shitty ex boyfriend does such a good job making him just utterly so detestable and self centered and, narcissistic and hurtful to her I guess to me, I didn't read the violence as literal the same way in romance novels, I often don't read the violence as literal, it just feels like her holding him, like you hurt me. I'll hurt you after she, breaks his arm, her and the monster are walking out and she's like, I feel so terrible.

Oh, my God, I shouldn't have done that. And he's like, he hurt you. You had cancer and he wasn't there for you. It's not okay. There need to be ramifications. And I understand there's danger in that slippage, right?

None of us are condoning real world violence here, right?

Morgan: Are we? Kinda seems like two of us are. Kinda seems like two of us might be.

Andrea Martucci: but this is what fiction is for,

Morgan: Kinda seems like one of us is a good person. With good opinions.

A real humanist.

Isabeau: you are wearing white.

Andrea Martucci: You're our white knight.

but so Morgan so let's bring this what is a romance novel that you really enjoyed that had the worst ethics, I guess,

Morgan: Oh Beast by Judith Ivory. A little Beauty and the Beast retelling, fittingly enough.

Andrea Martucci: What is something like that happens in that book that is morally bad, ethically bad that you enjoyed?

Morgan: I don't necessarily enjoy the [00:21:00] morally or ethically bad things that happen. The sex is bad, right? By our standards today. Because she's very young. He's significantly older. And he's manipulating and lying to her

But I do enjoy the love scenes in that novel.

I enjoy the drama and the friction and the static and electricity those things create. This is another thing, right? This movie reminds me of romance novels. The stakes are so all over the place.

We're supposed to believe he's genuinely frightening in the beginning, but he's not very frightening looking, and he very intimidatingly does tell her she has to leave the house

by a certain deadline. But then most of his other stuff is just growling at her while there's a montage of him, growling at her while she's vacuuming, reading Shakespeare together, and that's how they become friends, and then he's ripping a man's throat out, it's all over, The magic of the novel seems like pretty limited then suddenly her closet extends into a burrow full of childhood things and he's trying to convince her it's not weird, I think it knows what it wants to say, the film, right?

It has a mesage

Mm

Isabeau: Okay.

But it doesn't know

Morgan: how to say that within the parameters of heteronormative romance, and I get that. It's really hard to say anything profound within the parameters of heteronormative romance. It's a cesspool of ethics and morality. And I understand why it doesn't work.

Yeah I don't like it.

Andrea Martucci: I'm really interested why you don't like, I do you know what I mean? Because it really just pinged something for Isabeau and I. And I don't think that Morgan, you don't buy into the concept of female rage you know what I mean?

I'm really curious, because there's this phenomenon with books we enjoy, right? Where you enjoy it to the point where you're like, I can recognize there's issues, but it didn't ruin it for me. It didn't break it for me, so I, yeah.

I'm curious why it broke for you and why there wasn't enough to overcome it for you

Morgan: I

Would say the ending did not break it for me. I think the movie had problems I didn't particularly enjoy it before then. I didn't find the monster to be compelling or interesting

Isabeau: he's not, he's like genuinely

Andrea Martucci: they never are

Isabeau: but I mean like more than that it's like he's so stereotypical, right? I knew all the beats he was going to make I knew he was going to come to the Halloween party and rescue

I knew there was going to be a montage. As soon as he said, You don't like Willy, in reference to William Shakespeare. I'm like, oh god, okay, I know exactly who you are, and I've seen this movie several times. I've also met you. In that way I don't think he's supposed to be compelling as a romantic lead.

I think he is the an amalgamation. Yeah, right? He's the projector screen.

screen

Morgan: Darcy's compelling as a romantic lead. He's not interesting, but he's compelling. [00:24:00] I know where a romance novel is going, but I can still find some main characters more compelling than others.

Isabeau: Absolutely. We've talked about this before, it's a structure that's endlessly the same, but the innovation inside the structure is what's compelling,

Morgan: Yeah sometimes it is just the character themselves. If you're talking about like, a Laura Kinsale, for example, or Judith ivory. Her stories are really boring, but her characters are compelling.

Isabeau: True.

Morgan: I don't know.

Andrea Martucci: It's puzzling to me though because

Morgan: why I don't like it.

Andrea Martucci: Is it because there wasn't a mermaid vagina?

Is that why?

That's true,

Morgan: that's the only kind of movie I like. I told Andrea I like Dave Eggers movies and now she's not, is it Dave Eggers?

Wait, is Dave Eggers the movie director or the author of Heartbreaking Work of Staggering Genes? He's

Andrea Martucci: It's robert Eggers the director.

Morgan: I like Robert Eggers movies a lot.

Andrea Martucci: Yeah. I've heard this spoken of as the naive reader of romance, which is somebody who is less aware of the genre's conventions, they could read a book, and they're taking it at more of a surface level, because they just don't know all the subtext, and I am an, you expert at romance.

I am not an expert at film. I watch films, but don't think about them at a deeper level. I wonder, Morgan, if and, Isabeau I don't know, like, where you are on the film buff spectrum, but I'm not a film buff. Do you know what I mean?

I'm taking this story super surface level, and I'm connecting it to other things, like romance novels, more so than, like, evaluating it as a film. Could that be it? I'm just hypothesizing.

Morgan: I think it's all text. I'm not saying there's an issue with the editing or the production

value.

Andrea Martucci: right. But I guess I feel like you're aware of more conventions of film than I would be, I don't know, Isabeau does my theory have any water

Isabeau: mean, Morgan is much more educated in film than either of us. That's. Facts. And I approach films the way I imagine many people approach romance novels, which is I'm here to be a fan. I don't go into it not to be. But Morgan, you were saying you didn't find the monster compelling and you began to say something about Laura.

What was it about Laura that you didn't find compelling?

Andrea Martucci: Yeah.

Morgan: I don't know if it was necessarily that I didn't find her compelling. I think it's actually pretty interesting to have a main character who is grounded. I think it's actually really rare for women in film to appear grounded in any way. and I guess it's a rug pull to make her homicidal.

And that's the other thing this is a movie with a twist at the end that's always signaling what the twist is gonna be. Twists on twists, right? Her friend is actually the lover. She is actually her monster.

She's the one doing that stuff. There's not really subtext in the movie. It's just Text, it's just telling an extremely [00:27:00] straightforward story.

But as a fan of Robert Eggers, I love a straightforward story but I think like, yeah, it's a bit of a rug pull to take someone who's so grounded and so justified in their fury and, it's more fun to make her a murderer. That ending feels extraordinarily bombastic and fun in a movie that has a high concept, like she's falling in love with the monster in her mom's house. But in spite of that high concept, It's a pretty straightforward domestic drama and romance, and to have this bombastic ending makes it a lot more fun, but it also like, I don't know, it's pretty horrific it's pulling from the horror genre without actually doing anything with it.

And I feel this way about a lot of romance that is published recently. It seems, in hindsight, preoccupied with its own moralizing. But if you're gonna be moralizing, which is what it seems to be doing, then you can't have like, and then she actually murdered him. It feels at odds with itself.

Yeah, I love female rage. Good for her. I'm not like, we lost a life. every life is precious in an HBO Max

Andrea Martucci: film

All lives matter,

Morgan: Yeah, all lives matter. How dare she? Like, I'm not doing anything like that.

Andrea Martucci: Morgan what do you mean by Laura's grounded? What aspects are you connecting to groundedness?

Morgan: If we were following Maisie, that's not a grounded character. That's someone who's going out and doing the most. Laura herself is not. Laura is following a very relatable path, which many of us would. Outside of eventually murdering her ex boyfriend.

Isabeau: on stage just before the New York Times is about to declare him a critic's choice.

Morgan: That's right.

Andrea Martucci: Maybe.

Morgan: He was very confident about it. It was probably fixed.

Not to put an evil hat on an evil hat.

Andrea Martucci: yeah. Maybe I like when the text is the text. But I don't like it in romance novels where it's overly,

Morgan: Prescriptive.

Andrea Martucci: yeah, but I think it's more because in romance novels, the characters are so flat, here are the good people, here are the bad people. The good people are all good. The bad people are all bad and nothing interesting is actually happening.

Whereas I feel like this movie, I understood the message it was telling, and the characters were complicated and messy,

it

Morgan: wait. The characters were complicated and messy

Andrea Martucci: okay. I understand monster is an aspect of Laura, right?

Morgan: so I can see her as complicated and messy.

Andrea Martucci: I guess, complicated and messy in the sense they don't always make the right choices,

Morgan: Who, you mean Laura doesn't?

Andrea Martucci: Laura such as ripping out your ex boyfriend's throat on stage.

Because I think like a lot of times the way comeuppance [00:30:00] happens, like the justice of romance novels, when big baddie at the end, like so many of Lisa Kleypas's it's like the gun that they're trying to shoot somebody else with misfires and they shoot themselves

or like they fall down the

Isabeau: Yeah.

Andrea Martucci: Yeah, like where justice is served, but the heroine doesn't have to be the one to actually do it or even the hero the universe just conspires to make it all work out. And I feel like the point of this movie is like, yeah,

nobody's going to save you. And like, not in just like a nihilist but like stand up for yourself, Hold people accountable.

I don't take it as literal. This movie does not exist in the real world as I understand it I'm not disturbed by her ex boyfriend getting his throat ripped out and bleeding on stage Because it feels like the entire purpose of the narrative was this larger purpose for me the consumer so it doesn't bother me like a real murder.

It's comedic to me. Not horror.

Morgan: Say it does not bother me like a real murder.

Andrea Martucci: Okay.

Morgan: I'm trying to think like what's an upsetting murder in a film.

Road

Isabeau: Road to Perdition?

Morgan: Yeah. It's not that. It's not Boardwalk Empire. It's not The Soprano, right? It's not an upsetting murder.

The movie ends with the murder, which means we're not supposed to care about the consequences. This is the ending. It's trying to be like, I guess I'm a little edgy with my happy ending. The thing that disturbs me about her murdering her ex boyfriend at the end is that it seems like that.

It seems very cliche. In a romance novel, Laura is interesting. Laura has complexity. Laura is messy. Everyone else is just really straightforward. Like even the actors who were meant to think might be having an affair with her ex.

Is just a really nice person throughout the whole movie, and then is a nice person in the end. Her friend Maisie is an asshole to her in the beginning of the movie, and is an asshole throughout, and then turns out is THE asshole. Likewise her ex boyfriend. The phlebotomist. No one else goes on a journey

Isabeau: Actually, that's a good pivot point for me. When the phlebotomist thing happened, I was like, Oh, too relatable, too real as somebody who's had a lot of blood drawn in the last four years I don't know anybody who enjoys having their blood drawn, but some have a harder time with needles than others. One of those people is me. The difference between a phlebotomist who like, cares how comfortable you are, versus someone who's like, you've been here six times in six weeks. This should be easier for you. You're making it hard for me, is a lot.

And the situation where she stands up for herself in that moment, I was like, I'm so glad you're advocating for your own health care and I'm really worried about what your cancer journey has been up until this point because it seems to me like it's probably been bad, that's a really good pivot because you're right, no one else is going on a journey except Laura this film is very tight and also when you said it started out as [00:33:00] a short film I think giving it more airtime and montages I enjoyed all those parts.

But I don't know that the premise itself and the lack of investigation of others justifies a movie of this length.

Like, as a novella, like sometimes novellas are like, oh god, yes, this is perfect. And sometimes we're like, oh my god, turn this into a novel and it will be utter fucking trash. Other people need a much longer runway and need 500 pages to say something cool and interesting because they've said so much egregious shit before that you need both parts.

This is not that. It benefits from brevity and the moments where it hits, it hits hard, I thought, but there are other moments where even when he comes to rescue her at the party and bad boyfriend gets his arm broken a la Phantom of the Opera and they have that moment on the street corner where he's like, I don't agree that you should feel bad. He did these bad things to you and then he's like it's not okay.

And then she's like it's not okay. They go back and forth too long. It felt real to me in the moment, because I'm like, this is how real people talk, but this isn't how people should talk in movies. There's a difference here in the fantasy upkeep, or the way in which reality needs to be polished more.

That was one of those moments where it's like, actual dialogue is needed here, not just repetition of. It's not okay for this length of time. Five, fine. Ten, too many.

Morgan: Well, actually three, three would be the ideal number.

Isabeau: Sure, but

Morgan: We figured this out. We figured this out, guys. You don't need to just grab in the dark. You can just do, you can just do three and people are going to be like, wow, the perfect number of things.

Isabeau: Five is fine.

Morgan: Three is best.

Isabeau: But yeah, in all those ways it feels like Laura's lived in everyone else's a beautiful coat hanger.

Andrea Martucci: Right it's her journey, the same way we move through the world and everybody else is like, we don't know why they do anything,

Morgan: But they do interesting stuff.

I mean, like, in life, people do interesting stuff. Even if you're, like, centering your own perspective.

Andrea Martucci: I guess so. My experience of reality is I don't have the distance to think that most things people do are interesting. I think mostly I perceive them as Oh, I don't know how to react to

Morgan: this!

Yeah.

Andrea Martucci: you know,

Morgan: And very few movies, or books, or anything, would be measured on the yardstick of, like, how realistic they are, like, how true to life, how literal right? Yeah.

can I ask a question?

Andrea Martucci: No.

Morgan: well, too late. Andrea, earlier you said you don't feel like the monster is supposed to be a compelling romantic lead.

Did you find the romance to be compelling? I would like to

hear from both of you.

Andrea Martucci: that's very democratic of you.

I wanted them to be [00:36:00] together in the sense that it was a story. In which it was set up for me to want them to be together. Isabeau, I think you were saying earlier the expected beats of the relationship, like it was hitting all the beats. It was, and I like, Pavlov's dog was like, Yep.

I'm here for it. Let's go. You know? Yeah. A a hundred percent.

Literally

Isabeau: Literally the same. I saw every single one of those turns coming. I'm like, this is what I'm here for. This is what I want. Thank you very much. Can I have some more? The formula here, the structure of it, I like it lent itself to. His lack of compellingness, because on his own, he's worse than Joseph Gordon Levitt from the, mid teens, right?

I don't want to say he's a nothing burger, because he's my nothing burger.

Andrea Martucci: He serves to further

Isabeau: right.

Andrea Martucci: journey

Morgan: But you did find the romance compelling.

Andrea Martucci: I liked that the monster was pushing her to change.

Morgan: Did

you want to see him kiss?

Isabeau: Yeah, I loved it when they kissed.

Morgan: Were you like, kiss, kiss,

Isabeau: Yeah. I was also like, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck.

Morgan: Yeah?

Andrea Martucci: Yeah.

Morgan: It is a.

Fade to black.

Isabeau: It was, It was, and I was like, meh.

Morgan: up everybody

Andrea Martucci: I mean, I'm sorry. We didn't see like penis in vagina, but we did see them rolling around and like hands and growling and sweaty after. I mean, is that fade to black? I wouldn't call that fade to black. The door was open.

Morgan: That's true. Open door. Fair enough.

Andrea Martucci: I read that as like unleashing her desire for things. I wasn't disgusted by it. It wasn't like, I was like, Ooh, I want to kiss the monster. And there were even moments in it that I feel like were trying to make you feel like that.

Like the hairy hands,

Morgan: Yeah. That was,

That was annoying to me. I was like, what? But that's not gross. You get the sense it's trying to make you feel something and it's just not landing. It's not that I was grossed out by him or anything. I just didn't care if they kissed. I didn't care if they boinked.

I was like, oh this is what's going to happen. I mean, like, and I had all the indicators that it would. They're about to kiss in all of the artwork for the movie. They've got all the love hearts. Yeah, they hit all those romance beats. I just, knew I was supposed to care and I didn't.

Isabeau: I was swept up in the river, in the canoe. I was in it. I didn't need it to be more than it was though, I see all the problems you're describing, Morgan, and

Morgan: Yeah.

Isabeau: I didn't need it to be more than it was, I thought the parts were funny, and this is what I mean too, about this film feeling like, I think it hits so hard because it feels to me like the author of this film, both the screenwriter and the director who's the same person, consumes a lot of my media, parts of it felt like that werewolf movie where he's the postman in the weird little town.

Andrea Martucci: Yes. I know what you're talking about, I can't remember the name of

Isabeau: Same. And those parts of the horror it's borrowing on, it's not 30 Days of Night, not really horror, it's humor horror, like What We Do in the Shadows it's [00:39:00] clearly referencing the Linda Hamilton Beauty and the Beast miniseries that I loved as a kid.

And it's all of these references,

but also the broadwayness of it. I loved there was so much music in it. The montages I've seen before and lots of rom coms that I like. If I'm a xylophone, it's hitting all of my keys.

But the thing, Andrea, you said earlier about it's her journey.

She's the one, so everybody else can have this flatness. really pinged something for me.

I found Laura, I was ready to be annoyed by her when I saw what her mom's house looked like and that she's wanting to be on Broadway and like just how much money that this person has to pursue this very particular very hard dream and I'm like I'm prepared to be annoyed by you and the fact that I wasn't. I think speaks to the charm of the actor who played Laura.

But there's also something here that's so deeply earnest that while I agree, Morgan it's prescriptive, it's saying something about female rage. There are all these signposts of what happens when rage is denied and, like, all these signposts of specifically the feminine journey of coming into self and tying the parts together that you've either cut yourself because you're trying to make yourself fit in this society, or that someone cut for you, and there's so much of that here that felt really earnest and like wasn't fully baked, but was like really working in a way that I found compelling because of its earnestness.

I think part of the reason the horror fails is because this movie is not in on its own joke in that way because it wants the body on the floor because it wants that justice. You're not meant to take it literally but also you're not meant not to take it seriously.

so it's

Morgan: camp?

You're not meant to misconstrue it or leave it open for interpretation

Isabeau: Right. It misses camp because it's too earnest.

And I hate to say this because it makes me sad but in, in those moments that like, I also found most compelling it's almost like a Buffy the Vampire Slayer episode, and it's the difference between a Buffy episode written by Joss Whedon versus somebody else.

You can tell when it's written by Joss Whedon.

Morgan: Isabeau is hitting a lot of things that preclude me from enjoying this as a romance which is like a matter of taste.

Andrea Martucci: Yeah. And Isabeau, you were talking about it speaking to you specifically, like I felt like this movie was hitting on things that were speaking to me very specifically

It feels like all of these people know each other, maybe from Yale drama school or NYU. It felt like they're all kind of living in this rarefied privileged universe where they are all being supported in some way they're not waitresses,

Isabeau: no one is bartending

Andrea Martucci: yeah, Laura has a layer of privilege where even though she is going through tough stuff, she's not worried that her bills won't get paid and that she'll be living out on the [00:42:00] streets and she's overworked. Like she has time, money, and even with that level of privilege, still has problems, right? And still is it has that loneliness and lack of support. She has a mother who can send her $5,000 and a bunch of pastries, but cannot be there when she comes home from the hospital after cancer treatment.

You know what I mean? That sucks.

But I don't know, just like the things her monster needed to teach her. I could have watched that all day long. You could have done 10, 15, 30, 300 times repeating that because I need that repeated for me because I cannot get it into my head.

It was like my shit to the point where I didn't care about anything else. Like the same way that I love Heather Guerre. And I recommended Heather Guerre to you guys, I don't think it, I don't think it landed for you the way it lands for me. But Heather Guerre is my shit? I'm like, ah, I feel like we have the same trauma. Do you know what I mean?

Morgan: I think this story could have been told and imagine if she had been in a city that's less interesting to you than New York and had a job that's less interesting to you you then aspiring Broadway actor. She's aspiring to be like an Instagram Influencer that's her dream and the monster she meets doesn't read William Shakespeare with her. He recites episodes of How I Met your Mother to her including the laugh track, right?

Something like that un something that would not be, like, inherently appealing taste wise. Just like a matter of taste and preference. Do you think you would still be interested in this movie? Cause it's the same story, just with different

Andrea Martucci: Is that for both of us or

Morgan: Yeah, I'm curious what both of you think.

Andrea Martucci: Isabeau, you first

Isabeau: okay, so if it's the same, but set in Denver,

Morgan: Stuff you maybe even like,

Isabeau: don't like, disdain a little bit.

Morgan: Maybe even like a couple things you disdain.

Isabeau: Instead of everything I love.

Morgan: Instead of everything you when he said Willie, and she went William Shakespeare. I was like, here we go. This is Isabeau's movie.

Andrea Martucci: Oh, well, it

Morgan: Oh,

Isabeau: Right. And he's like,

Morgan: is she? She's

running around in tiny circles in her living room. That's all it

Isabeau: that's all it takes.

Morgan: I didn't realize you were on that basis with William Shakespeare. As am I.

Isabeau: I think, this goes back to what I said at the top where it's like I go into these things baseline to enjoy them. I'm pretty forgiving of film I'm less forgiving of romance novels, especially after this long as a podcaster, but even before that, like I think my standards for film are lower.

If he was interested, In quoting Top Gear, I think I would have found him [00:45:00] less compelling, but the story about rage in its earnestness and like reconnecting with self like that, that would speak to me either way. And I think that speaks to like the conceit and we're saying that everything's the same, right?

The actors are the same because as Andrea said, the guy playing the ex boyfriend is like top tits. shithead amazing.

And I also found the actor playing Laura very compelling in the way she moved her face and inhabited the character. Even if I found stuff distasteful, I would be like, yeah, it's good.

I, maybe I wouldn't watch it again, but I'm not sad I watched it the first time versus this. I'm telling everyone about this movie. I made John watch it with me and I don't usually do that. It was great. I've called my sister about it today. Yeah, you're right.

I wouldn't have enjoyed it as much. I still probably would have enjoyed it a little bit I wouldn't have been like, meh, doesn't deserve its space, which I have felt about other films before.

Andrea Martucci: Okay. I don't even like New York City. I'm going there tomorrow. I don't even like that place, okay? I just want to be clear.

Morgan: right, actually,

Andrea Martucci: Boston go around,

Isabeau

Isabeau: thumbs up city.

Morgan: thumbs up, thumbs down, New York. Let's get this out there, everybody.

Andrea Martucci: This is a visual you're gonna Isabeau

Morgan: Isabeau, you have to give a thumbs up or a thumbs down.

Isabeau: can we all do it at the same time? Ready, set, go.

Ruth: For listeners: we all give New York a thumbs down.

Morgan: Oh.

Andrea Martucci: New York.

Morgan: Do you know what? Actually?

Ruth: Morgan changes her vote to a thumbs up.

Isabeau: Don't be a contrarian. They don't have alleys. They throw their trash on the street. Chicago's way better.

It smells like piss

Andrea Martucci: like

Isabeau: all the time. There are not enough trees.

Morgan: (in a whisper) I think I like it better than Boston.

Isabeau: don't. Don't fucks with that.

Andrea Martucci: (long silence) This recording is over.

Morgan: okay. So We're all on the record then. You know, but if everything else was, not to your taste.

She wants to sell the most Jaguars. And her ex boyfriend manages the Jaguar dealership.

Andrea Martucci: Yeah, because Morgan the part that's my shit is needing to learn how to not make excuses for other people and to be able to feel my feelings and acknowledge what they are. I just said my feelings. It's me. It's about me needing to feel my feelings and not shut down.

I don't care. It could take place in a Jaguar dealership, it could take place at fly fishing camp.

Morgan: See, that's where it would've turned me on. That's where it would've reeled me right in if I could And it's not actually, like, a reel. Like, it tugged me in.

Isabeau: Like,

I like all of those parts too. Thank you for being so vulnerable with us, Andrea. I do like this as an amalgamation of all the things that I love already about film and references, I was thinking today I already have such an intimate and strong relationship with my rage and anger.

But I just, feel like I'm, if my rage [00:48:00] were, disembodied and fucking me, I'd be like, Hey, babe. I saw you yesterday. Let's do this again. I'm so close to it all the time. I think this is both my birth order and personality the problem that I have and that I found deeply relatable is the outburst part The problem here is she's now unleashed it in a way that's like deeply unproductive and that it's not just the power, and like the push for accountability, it's the violence, the hurting, the lash out, that part was like, ah, you got to rein this in and you're going to do harm now.

Morgan: The lash out doesn't come from making love to and acknowledging the rage the lash outs happen whenever she tries to

Isabeau: lock it back in the closet.

Morgan: Yeah when she tries to deny it or push it aside for something else

Andrea Martucci: Yeah. The marketing around it does bill it as a romance, And so I did go into it, in that mindset.

Morgan: There is this thing people try to do this frequently we discover usually around Halloween where people try to combine romance and horror

It seems like people who are quasi successful at it can either do it with the schlocky parts of horror over the top gore, spiders, gross stuff, the carnival esque way horror can be but without fear being the centered feeling, right?

Isabeau: That Is such a good way of saying it like, fear isn't the major pathos the film is operating

Andrea Martucci: hmm.

Morgan: The Prince of Midnight Does a great job of having fear as like a central pathos and operating part, but it's very subtle.

Isabeau: Mm. Until the third act, yeah

Andrea Martucci: did you watch Lisa Frankenstein?

Morgan: I loved Lisa Frankenstein.

Andrea Martucci: Isabeau Lisa Frankenstein, if you haven't seen it, is, tonally, similar to Your Monster it's Horror, but goofy, like horror, romance, comedy, it's bloody, but it's like funny, bloody. It's interesting, Morgan, that you love that one, because that one also, they kill multiple people.

Morgan: It's not the death that bothers me

Andrea Martucci: but

Morgan: in situ.

Andrea Martucci: Okay, wait, let's unpack that for a second though, because that one also has similar ish where she's like downtrodden and part of it is like taking vengeance against people who have wronged

Morgan: Yeah.

Andrea Martucci: So explain how in situ are different for you.

Morgan: Lisa Frankenstein, the only way she copes, the only way she gets vengeance is through murder. And also, it's written by Diablo Cody, it's more my taste. Okay, I will say that up front, it's more my taste. But also Lisa Frankenstein is committing murders throughout, and so a single murder isn't a shock, it's more an exclamation point than a mic drop moment. The murder at the end of Your Monster It's trying to [00:51:00] shock you, it's trying to surprise you at the end because it's supposed to be disjointed from the rest of the film.

I don't know what the point of that was but in Lisa Frankenstein her rage is unproductive it's interesting and funny because She and her companion don't realize it. Her monster don't realize it. They're just kind of like wildly, that's like the thing.

Andrea Martucci: You know, I wonder how else could this movie have ended? So if you go on like the entire journey and you even have her like taking over the role in the play, she's re inhabiting the role that was created for her, like she is she's finally getting to be herself. how does it end in a way where we understand as the audience that she truly has reclaimed herself and isn't going to put up with shit anymore that isn't her just yelling at him and being like, so they're like, do you know what I mean? Like, I am actually wondering end that.

That doesn't feel stupid.

Morgan: first, I wouldn't necessarily change the ending. I would change things that lead up to the ending.

And I would also say the ending, once again it's supposed to be saying this thing of she's standing in her power with this murder, and isn't that bombastic of us to have this violent murder, this woman rip out his throat. It's saying that, but it's also making it so that the rage only acts whenever she's trying to repress it.

And so it's also saying this is the result of a bad action. She's repressing herself, right? So that's what I mean by it doesn't seem clear right on its message. The things I would do differently that I think could potentially have made the ending work better, is to see a more consistent escalation on the way to that murder.

He breaks the boyfriend's arm, and then he murders the ex boyfriend.

Isabeau: she sleeps with him then the monster rages in her closet.

Morgan: Which is not an escalation, a de escalation.

Isabeau: That's super true. I saw it coming as soon as she broke the ruler over her knee, which was, like, cool, or whatever, but yeah, I agree.

We needed one or two more scenes of violence before we get to a murder.

Morgan: for a punchline to land you've got to have proper timing escalation and setup, I don't think this movie gave the punchline that.

Andrea Martucci: Technical difficulties notwithstanding, we have been talking about this for a while. I don't think we cracked this nut wide open, but I'm okay with that. Morgan, I appreciate you playing the role of dissenter in this conversation. I

Morgan: didn't play the role, it's who I am.

Isabeau: Guys!

Andrea Martucci: who you are.

Morgan: I dissent!, Your Monster isn't that good!

Isabeau: Wrong.

Morgan: ripping out this take!

Isabeau: Wrong.

How

Andrea Martucci: are you saying that about my monster?

Morgan: I'm standing next to the bloody body of your monster!

Isabeau: Willie? This guy, Willie[00:54:00]

Shakes?

Morgan: Really, Shade?

Andrea Martucci: Uh, anyways. Yeah. Do we have anything else to say about this? We already know how we feel about rewatching it and whatnot and recommending it, but maybe one final thought on romance novels, like this movie does set you up to think about it as a romance. is it a s

Morgan: It's

a No mance

Andrea Martucci: it's No Mance for Morgan .

Isabeau: It's a Whoamance for me. Absolutely.. I'm going to recommend this. If you liked Warm Bodies, and you have liked the books that I've recommended on Whoamance, you will probably like this film. If you like musicals, you'll probably like this movie. If you, like me, watch the Disney Channel original Don't Look Under the Bed.

This is gonna bowl straight down that nostalgia chestnut. And I think that if you haven't revisited that in a long time, it works really well as a romance, as well. Because the thing about romance, as Andrea beautifully said at the beginning, and as alluded to in this idea of it can be two beings in one body, or multiple things.

Morgan: I love that.

Isabeau: It's self discovery through another. It's self discovery of self through a series of actions, external and internal, this is one hell of a Whoamance for me, and I loved the dance scene. Anytime there's a dance scene, you've probably gotten me 80 percent of the way there.

Andrea Martucci: That is so true for me too. Yeah. it's a Shelf Love for me, not a Shelf Hate, get it. Um, thank you. Thank you. And I think also monster romance is having a renaissance, if you will. Too many of us grew up with, Gargoyles and Beauty and the Beast and various other things that influenced us. I will say, I mean, I definitely viewed it within that, oeuvre. Like I was saying to me the monster could be the leader of the motorcycle gang or the bad billionaire it's any person living slightly outside of society. Who is just like fuck it. I do what I want and I'm gonna bring you along over into that with me Yeah, forget your troubles. Let's have fun.

I had fun anyways thank you both for being here and putting mascara on to record

Morgan: I didn't put anything on.

Isabeau: put stuff

here and here and here.

Morgan: This is just me.

Andrea Martucci: lighting.

Morgan: I also am wearing lots of mascara.

Isabeau: You got J. J. Abrams

Morgan: to do my lighting.

Andrea Martucci: What's going on with Whoamance these days? I listen to every episode, of course.

Isabeau: bless you.

Morgan: Why don't you tell them?

Andrea Martucci: well, I don't know what's next. I don't know what hasn't happened yet. Jesus. I'm not in your computers. I don't have spyware.

Morgan: it feels like [00:57:00] it. Sometimes it feels like you're right there. We are going to talk about um, um, This doesn't bode well for the conversation.

Isabeau: When Grumpy Met Sunshine.

Andrea Martucci: Oh, is that Charlotte Stein?

Isabeau: It is a Charlotte Stein.

Morgan: That was a listener request that we revisit that author. Thank you Isabeau.

Isabeau: You're welcome.

Andrea Martucci: Is it a bully romance?

Morgan: You'll have to listen to the episode to find

Andrea Martucci: I do know your entire backlist and I know that previously the Charlotte Stein book you did was the bully romance where it was like super fucked up. Yeah.

Isabeau: So, we're revisiting.

Morgan: Yeah. And then we'll be talking about Meet Me at the Anvil, a self-published novella by Katie Pryor, who we've also talked about previously. Her book, Love Laugh, Li

Andrea Martucci: Oh,

okay.

Morgan: When we did our monster romance series.

Andrea Martucci: Oh, you guys have been covering monster romance for a long time. Even before the Renaissance. Yeah.

Morgan: interested in it for a long time.

Isabeau: And remain, I have, because of the renaissance, I have been reading more monster romance, and while I haven't encountered a full on dragon dick, we're getting closer. I like that. I think the difference in monster penises hasn't been that interesting, but it is getting more interesting than it was five years ago.

And I appreciate that.

Morgan: yeah. If people have never listened to our show and this is your first time meeting us. It is not irregular for me to not enjoy things I should enjoy.

Isabeau: The black fly in your chardonnay.

Morgan: Yeah, it's not irregular for me to be the black fly in your chardonnay. Or a death row pardon ten minutes too late.

Andrea Martucci: That's what

brings the fun dynamic, the conflict, the tension.

Morgan: I

Andrea Martucci: thought you were

Morgan: going to say I think that's what brings the fun down. That's what really sucks the air out of the room, is you being like, I don't know.

Andrea Martucci: You guys should agree with each other more, honestly.

Morgan: But, uh, I will say, I think if you enjoy the overall state of contemporary romantic comedies getting published in Romance at this time, you'll probably like Your Monster.

Isabeau: That's true,

Andrea Martucci: That feels like a bit of a backhanded compliment.

Isabeau: not a compliment at

Morgan: And I think you guys should take that

Isabeau: not a compliment at all.

That is a straight up, fuck you, Andrea Isabeau. Yeah, 100%. Didn't feel good. that was mean.

Andrea Martucci: you You

were like, if you like the state of contemporary romance, I was like, I

Isabeau: Exactly. And she knows that. And she knows that I feel the same way. Mm hmm. That was mean what she did

Andrea Martucci: Wow. Disrespected on my own podcast. What recourse do I have but to fly to Chicago with a ruler

Isabeau: That's how you know you got the message of the [01:00:00] movie.

Break that ruler over your knee in front of her.

Morgan: The only recourse I have is murdering someone with my own hands.

Isabeau: I bet I could get you a stage. know some people.

Andrea Martucci: Okay. I like Chicago, by the way. Chicago is on my list of cities that does not generally smell like piss,

Isabeau: We have alleys. It's an innovation.

Andrea Martucci: And I appreciate that. Very nice grid system.

Isabeau: such a good.

Andrea Martucci: Nice people.

Isabeau: so

Morgan: midwestern

I bet I would enjoy Boston more if I got to see Andrea's Boston, if you were my Rick Steves.

Andrea Martucci: I was in Boston, last week. I realized I don't know that city anymore. It's changed a lot since the pandemic I don't know where anything is. Like the streets are the same, but I don't know what establishments are there.

Isabeau: Sounds like we should have a romance conference, podcast conference in Boston and come see you.

Andrea Martucci: I think that would be great.

Great. It will be in my basement.

Isabeau: I need to get to Boston see some cousins.

Andrea Martucci: All right. with that loosen your tight hold on your emotions

Morgan: . Amen. But not in a homicidal way.

Isabeau: But never your principals.

Andrea Martucci: but never your principles,

Mua! Hey, thanks for spending time with me today. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate or review on your favorite podcast app or tell a friend. Check out Shelflovepodcast.com for transcripts and other resources. If you want regular written updates from Shelf Love, you can increasingly find me over at Substack.

Read occasional updates and short essays about romance at shelflovepodcast.Substack.com. Thank you to Shelf Love's $20 a month Patreon supporters: Gail, Copper Dog Books, and Frederick Smith. Have a great day.