Elaine  Gignilliat's Romance Novel Cover Art with Laura Sawyer

Oct 6, 2026

Featuring: Laura Sawyer

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Short Description

Laura Sawyer joins me to discuss the life and work of her mother, Elaine Gignilliat, whose approximately 350 oil paintings helped define the visual language of historical romance in the 1970s, ’80s, and ’90s.

We talk about Elaine’s unconventional life and career, her transition from fashion illustration to romance covers, and the extraordinary research and craft that went into paintings designed to tell a story, create desire, and sell a book. We also dig into the hierarchy between “fine art” and illustration, the cultural devaluation of art associated with women and romance, and what gets lost when these large, detailed paintings are reduced to paperback size.

Laura also shares her plans for preserving and reintroducing her mother’s work, beginning with Holding the Moment, an exhibition of Elaine Gignilliat’s original paintings at Lovestruck Books & Café in Cambridge, Massachusetts. We consider why these paintings may resonate differently now—in an era of digital publishing and generative AI—and what it means to recover a largely overlooked piece of romance’s visual history.

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Tags

romance novel art, historical romance novels, romance scholarship, business of books

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Show Notes

Laura Sawyer joins me to discuss the life and work of her mother, Elaine Gignilliat, whose approximately 350 oil paintings helped define the visual language of historical romance in the 1970s, ’80s, and ’90s.

We talk about Elaine’s unconventional life and career, her transition from fashion illustration to romance covers, and the extraordinary research and craft that went into paintings designed to tell a story, create desire, and sell a book. We also dig into the hierarchy between “fine art” and illustration, the cultural devaluation of art associated with women and romance, and what gets lost when these large, detailed paintings are reduced to paperback size.

Laura also shares her plans for preserving and reintroducing her mother’s work, beginning with Holding the Moment, an exhibition of Elaine Gignilliat’s original paintings at Lovestruck Books & Café in Cambridge, Massachusetts. We consider why these paintings may resonate differently now—in an era of digital publishing and generative AI—and what it means to recover a largely overlooked piece of romance’s visual history.

Guest: Laura Sawyer

• The Art of Elaine Gignilliat
• Holding the Moment: The Romance Cover Art of Elaine Gignilliat
• The Art of Elaine Gignilliat on Instagram
• Lovestruck Books & Café in Cambridge, Massachusetts

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Transcript

Andrea Martucci: [00:00:00] Hello, and welcome to Shelf Love, a podcast about romance novels and how they reflect, explore, challenge, and shape desire. I'm your host, Andrea Martucci, and on this episode, I'm joined by Laura Sawyer to discuss the art of Elaine Gignilliat, who was her mother.

Laura, thank you so much for being here today.

Laura Sawyer: I'm delighted.

Andrea Martucci: This is so exciting. I saw on Instagram, that there is an amazing exhibit of your mother's work at Lovestruck Books in Cambridge, Massachusetts, it just showed up in my feed, and I was like, "This is so cool."

Okay. So why don't we start by just talking about how that came about, and then I think we're definitely gonna get a lot more into your mother's story, the history of the art, and all sorts of topics about romance novel cover art.

Laura Sawyer: So just as, as background, my mother passed away 10 years ago in 2016, and I inherited and my brother inherited her body of work. So I have m- maybe 200 or [00:01:00] 250 of the original paintings, and have moved them four times now 'cause I move a lot. But I retired a year ago, and I thought, "Okay, now is the time for me to think about w- what to do with this archive of work."

And I got introduced to Lovestruck, and we developed the idea of doing an exhibition there. And it happened to coincide, Lovestruck is doing a big renovation of their store, which is gorgeous, by the way. I know you've been there, but a lot of people may not have. It's an amazing store. But anyway, they're renovating their cafe and wine bar, and so there is this temporary wall space up that most bookstores don't have, and we were able to, you know, mount a fairly large exhibit of the work. That wall will come down as the cafe opens, and there will still be a semi-permanent exhibition going on indefinitely within the cafe. So it's been fun. The initial response has been extraordinary right?

 Immediate and strong from people in academia, those who are collectors, [00:02:00] those who have an appreciation of illustration art. And honestly, no one's ever seen The paintings as they were painted, these are oil paintings, and some, they're like 30 inches by 24 or whatever. Mm-hmm. All they've seen is book cover scale, so seeing the paintings in their original full scale is pretty dramatic, and people are responding really well.

Andrea Martucci: Yeah, and I think also seeing work by one artist all in one place on a wall together, I think that you really get a sense of an artist's aesthetic. And also the variety of what they can do, but it really hits home, how meticulous these paintings are, how much skill went into them.

But many listeners of the podcast know that I have several originals by other artists. Yeah. And I think, you know, I love getting up close and being able to see the brushstrokes and, you know, like you see how they added the highlights to the hair and, you know, the details to the background. You just get such an [00:03:00] appreciation for the art in a way that you can't on a cover.

Because y- I happen to have I just got a delivery of some books from eBay, and I was like looking through to see who did them, and there were two by your mother in there. Oh. Just in you know, one random delivery, and one of them, you can tell that like the, the printing was a little offset.

Like the color- ... plates were a little offset, and it's a little blurry. uh, In the mass production process, you definitely lose a little bit, a, a lot of it sometimes, of the detail. And they're still beautiful, but- it's such an honor to be able to see them in person all together.

I remember several years ago, I believe your mother had already passed away, but she still had her website up.

Laura Sawyer: Yeah.

Andrea Martucci: And there was, it was, there was like all these descriptions of the paintings throughout her house.

Laura Sawyer: Yeah.

Andrea Martucci: And you know, these are the ones that are in this room, and these are the ones that are in this room, and imagining myself walking through, I was like, "This must be amazing."

So what I'm sure you were in that house with those paintings [00:04:00] everywhere. Tell us about what that was like.

Laura Sawyer: Yeah, that's why I have a lot of framed paintings, 'cause I still have those that were framed in her house. And when you entered the house, my mother was very dramatic. It was a black marble floor and then a red carpeted curved sweeping staircase and double height ceilings, and she had 12 covers on each side, you know, going up the walls to the ceilings of these big wrap covers the larger scale ones.

And then her entire studio was covered with them. Yeah, that website is still up. I don't even know who hosts it, but- it's still there with the whole collection. It's very helpful actually that it is still there.

Andrea Martucci: Yeah, everything is cataloged on there. It's amazing.

Laura Sawyer: All the authors, all the titles. She takes you on a tour of her house. But yeah, no she was very proud of her work, and she had it all over her house. So a, a lot of the paintings that are in the exhibit were the ones that were hanging in her [00:05:00] home in Georgia.

Andrea Martucci: So you said your mother was very dramatic, and I think her life story sounds very dramatic and fun.

Mm-hmm. And I'd love to get to that in a bit, but you had mentioned something before we started talking just about how one thing that you thought would surprise your mother was the changing attitudes about- Mm-hmm ... romance novels and their covers in particular, and the art. And so I'm curious, back you know, imagining her house filled with these covers and it sounds like a beautiful grand entryway.

 What did guests say when entering the house? Obviously they know your mother's an artist, and they probably know exactly what she does but what were the reactions and the responses, you know, at the time?

Laura Sawyer: You know, I don't know broadly because I was living in New York, and this was when she had moved back to Georgia, so I didn't see much of it.

But what I did see, you could have a, a plumber come to fix a pipe, and burly with his belt on and all of that. And he'd be like, "Oh, my God. These things are [00:06:00] beautiful," right? As you just said, you see them in person, and you can't help but say, "Wow," you know, to her, "You're extraordinarily talented.

And these things are beautiful." You know, they are romance illustration, but the artistry and the drama, composition, emotion, whatever, seemed to land even with, you know, your average Joe- Yeah ... you wouldn't think would respond. But yeah, I think the response was that it was dramatic and beautiful.

Andrea Martucci: Why don't you take us back. How did your mother get into painting romance novel covers and where does it fit within her larger art career. It feels like it was inevitable that she ended up doing this when I read her story.

Laura Sawyer: Her bio, right?

Yeah. Yeah she was an artist at age three. She did. She was wholly focused on art from a very young age, and then starting in adolescence, art [00:07:00] and men.

Andrea Martucci: So So again, inevitable.

Laura Sawyer: Romance, but I think it was men. Okay It was all art, you know? So she won her art teacher in high school enrolled her in a regional-wide competition across the Southeast for an art scholarship.

One boy and one girl would get a scholarship to the High Museum of Art, and she won that competition and went to art school, but I think within her first semester, she was thrown out for having an affair with one of the teachers whose wife got murdered at the same time. It was like an evil-

Andrea Martucci: Murdered by him?

Laura Sawyer: He never actually made it to c- to court. He got ill- Oh ... before the case came to court, but everybody assumed that he did kill his wife.

Andrea Martucci: Wow, okay.

Laura Sawyer: I know. So she came back home. It was a big scandal, obviously.

Andrea Martucci: Yes, I'm sure.

Laura Sawyer: So she worked for Rich's Department Store, got into fashion illustration art, and then decided that she [00:08:00] belonged in Paris, so she went alone to Paris at 19 or 20 years old and sent back the couture collections, drawings of them, that were published in The Atlanta Constitution, and then she moved to New York and became a fashion illustrator.

I have one of her fashion illustrations behind me. And was successful, very successful doing that. But then when she got married and had children, she followed my father's career, and they moved to Ohio and Minnesota, where she couldn't work. You know, she just couldn't. It wasn't the digital age, right?

Mm-hmm. It was really hard to find work, and so she, her career kind of, you know, ground to a halt during those years, which w- were not happy years for her. When she moved back to New York, she went to the Art Students League to take a class. She met a certain Italian illustrator. I suppose it's been long enough to say- Yeah

his name was Franco Accornero. I think people might know him as a romance illustrator. But he leaned [00:09:00] over and he handed her an Italian chocolate and said, "Would you like an Italian kiss?" And I think that was the beginning of- A, a very hot romance. And he basically taught her the inroads to romance illustration.

Like he said, "If I can do this, you could do this," seeing her- Mm-hmm ... draw. So she started she did, sort of Gothic, you know, women running down the hill, away from the castle and eventually evolved into really being one of the pre-eminent historical romance book cover artists of the time.

And starting in the 1970s, which was 50 years ago, half century ago, which is crazy to think it's been that long. But that's how she got into it, and she just worked and worked. She was self-taught, essentially, right? 'Cause- Mm-hmm ... she never went back to art school. And she worked and refined.

She never accepted any changes from any art directors because she knew she was over-delivering to start with, and she had so much pride in her work. [00:10:00] And she would work from sun-up till midnight, you know. She was really dedicated.

Andrea Martucci: Wow. Do you know her total output? Was it 350?

Laura Sawyer: Yeah, about 350, I think.

You know, they are on the website, and I actually have the physical log-

Andrea Martucci: Oh, wow ...

Laura Sawyer: where she hand-wrote every job she got, who the publisher was, what she got paid for it, starting in 1975 or whatever. So I could count them, but yeah, I think it's about 350.

Andrea Martucci: Yeah, which I think is so prolific when you think about these are oil paintings, right?

Yes. And I can't do the math in my head, but over the period, I think you said she started in 1975, and then I'm assuming by the mid-'90s the pace is slowing down-

Laura Sawyer: Yeah ...

Andrea Martucci: for you know, the demand for oil painting covers is changing rapidly. Exactly.

Laura Sawyer: It, yeah, the industry evolved to, you know, photography and- Photoshop and other...

I think, I know you've done some research around the evolution of book cover art, but yeah, but in the '90s there was a really sharp [00:11:00] turn away from oil to photography covers.

Andrea Martucci: Yeah. And I know some artists were doing this kind of mix at the time where there would be a photograph, and then they would paint on period-appropriate clothing or a background, like on top of the photograph.

Yeah. Do you know when this change started coming, was your mom like, "I'm out, I'm done," or did she dabble at all in any of the hybrid or digital...?

Laura Sawyer: She did not dabble in any of that. And it coincided with her moving back to Georgia. She was still working and sending, you know, these tissue sketches up and she used to go to every photography shoot and pick out all of the wardrobe in person for every book cover she did.

But when she moved back to Georgia, she would send these really meticulous... And a woman actually was just in Lovestruck yesterday.

Andrea Martucci: Mary Lynn Nielsen.

Laura Sawyer: Yeah. Yes. And she had one of these sketches. I'm dying to know how she got it, 'cause I have a bunch of them, right? Yeah. But maybe through the estate [00:12:00] sale. I don't know how she got this original sketch from one of these paintings that happens to be in the exhibition.

But yeah, my mother was really detailed in, you know, sending these instructions back to the photographer and on costume selection and mood and all of that stuff. Gradually the wave came to shore and she stopped working as that all happened.

Andrea Martucci: Before we started, you were talking about the resurgence and interest in romance novel cover art and that you think your mother would be surprised by that. Those stories you've told about your mother, it's so clear, you've said it, but it's so clear that she had so much pride in what she was doing, and she believed it was art and I believe it's art, right?

Mm-hmm. But the wider culture didn't necessarily consider it to be art, and maybe artists in the artist world may not have considered it art. So I wonder if you could speak more, a little bit more about that, you know- ... Her perception of what she was doing and how that was maybe in opposition to what a lot of other people thought about it.

Laura Sawyer: Yeah. [00:13:00] I think you had two biases at work. One was that illustration wasn't considered art. Even going back to Norman Rockwell and others, right? Illustration art was commercial art and that fine art was fine art and never the twain shall meet, right? Mm-hmm. That bias has also been turned over and challenged and disrupted.

And the other was that this was art made by women for women, a genre. And you know, it was largely dismissed. And as I was saying to you earlier, women would cover, literally cover their books with brown paper because they were afraid of being ridiculed for reading romance. And I've never seen a man cover a crime novel cover because he's gonna be ridiculed for reading about crime, and in my opinion-

Andrea Martucci: Yeah.

Laura Sawyer: reading about love should be favored over reading about- Yes. ... crime, right? But at the time, certainly the genre hadn't garnered the kind of interest and respect, and readers weren't as loud and [00:14:00] proud as they are today. So I'm delighted to see all of the interest in romance and historical romance.

You know, Bridgerton and other things have certainly helped that along. And also romance has evolved so much, right? Mm-hmm. There are so many subgenres, and it's much more inclusive, and there's a real community around it. I went to one romance conference just to get a feel for it, and it was so joyful.

Yeah. It's just so joyful. The readers are so appreciative of the authors, and there's such a strong community. I don't think my mother could have anticipated any of that, nor that the visual language of romance would be looked at closely and favorably by scholars, which is happening. So she would be delighted.

She was frustrated 'cause she would say the art world is only interested in conceptual art or abstract art and not realism and illustration art isn't appreciated as art as it should be. So she was frustrated by it. She felt that was unjust. But [00:15:00] she couldn't fix it at the time. I think she'd be very happy to see what's happening now.

Andrea Martucci: Yeah. And it mirrors romance novels themselves, right? You know, r- genre fiction in opposition to literary fiction. And and it's interesting that even if you were an illustrator for a literary book, your illustration as opposed to fine art would be seen as lesser than.

Yeah. Which, as somebody outside of the art world- Mm-hmm ... I found the use of the terminology of illustration kind of puzzling when I first started- ... getting into collecting art. 'Cause for example like Max Ginsburg, he has Max Ginsburg's website of art, and then Max Ginsburg illustration, and I'm like I don't get it.

What's the difference? Why are we separating these two things," right? I understand the separation of romance art because I do understand the highbrow/lowbrow divide. I understand that hierarchy of taste. I don't agree with it, but I- Mm-hmm ... I I'm like, "Okay I understand culturally why that works," but I was like, "Illustration," [00:16:00] right?

Yeah. Because when I look at these, I'm like, when I think illustration, I think, I don't know, a cartoon. And, and- Cartoonish

Laura Sawyer: or something

Andrea Martucci: like that. I'm like, these are paintings.

Laura Sawyer: Those are paintings. Yeah, and they're hers are so meticulous. If you'd seen all of these incredibly fine sable hair toothbrushes.

If you look at just the lace on a single dress, right? The amount of attention, the understanding of anatomy, fashion, culture- Mm-hmm ... emotion storytelling, right? It's all there, right? Mm-hmm. If you just look at these paintings, there's so much there. And you're right it doesn't feel like, you know, a Pepsi ad illustration or something.

This is a very different thing. Yeah. It is. You're right.

Andrea Martucci: Yeah. I've, ugh, so many things where it's like there is a reason for it, right? 'cause I suppose what is illustration connoting there? The fact that somebody wrote a book, and you are illustrating a concept or something from the book, right?

It's that you didn't come up [00:17:00] with this on your own.

Laura Sawyer: Yes. It is commissioned art. It's not, you know, purely of one's own imagination or experience. It's definitely commissioned. You're representing the text.

Andrea Martucci: Mm-hmm.

Laura Sawyer: But there's a dimension of narrative storytelling in the art itself- Yes

right? There is so much. Just the sexual and emotional and psychological tension captured in- ... their facial expressions, for example, or their- ... body language. And she had a huge library and every harness on every horse was period specific. Every detail was actually researched, right? So there is the answer to the ask.

You're doing commissioned art. It is illustration art.

Andrea Martucci: Mm-hmm.

Laura Sawyer: And then there is the artistry and the integrity that went into actually creating these oil paintings, and they both can coexist, right?

Andrea Martucci: Yeah.

Laura Sawyer: It's one or the other.

Andrea Martucci: Yeah. I happen to know somebody who's very into horses and [00:18:00] and I posted a cover once, and apparently, the bridle or saddle or something was incorrect and they were-

Laura Sawyer: Really?

Andrea Martucci: they, and they were telling me. This was a, a different artist, but, and they were like- Oh, okay. I'm like, "

Laura Sawyer: My mother?"

Andrea Martucci: No, not your mother. Not your mother. No. But but it's the kind of- Okay ... but it's the kind of detail- ... I would never notice, right? I'm not a horse girl. I don't know anything about horses.

But I really appreciate hearing that she put that level of attention on that. And I think also, you know, everybody has their special little interests, right? So maybe for that one friend of mine, it was horses. Maybe for me- ... I don't actually know what it would be for me in historical.

But for some people, it might be the costuming. For some people, it might be like something in the architecture, you know? So yeah. Yeah. Did she have, she had a reference library of like- Yeah .

Laura Sawyer: Yes, books on art, architecture, landscape, nature, history, right?

Because she might be painting Russia during the tsar era- Mm-hmm ... or she might be painting in France and she would need to know what a [00:19:00] chalet would look like at that time or place or i- within a certain region. But yeah, a lot of art books, a lot of architecture books, a lot of anatomy books, human and-

Andrea Martucci: Mm-hmm

Laura Sawyer: a lot of horses, right?

Andrea Martucci: Yeah.

Laura Sawyer: Yeah, so she had a pretty extensive library, which she utilized. And she would have all of these things up on her easel, right? To- Mm-hmm ... reference as she was doing the composition and-

Andrea Martucci: It's probably undervalued also, you know, thinking about not just what do I need to represent here, like what's important to characterize the individuals in this story and the setting and, you know, whatever's going on.

Representing something about the relationship that is persuasive to an audience, like you should pick this up, but then also describing what's actually in the book. Mm-hmm. But then also having to account for things like where's the title gonna go.

Laura Sawyer: Oh,

Andrea Martucci: right. You know? Like, where were you gonna leave some negative space for text and- Mm-hmm ... Where are you gonna kinda simplify the colors so that they're [00:20:00] less distracting behind text. Yep. You know, things like that.

Laura Sawyer: Exactly. Yeah, I think that affects the composition, and you notice it particularly in the wraparound cover. Mm-hmm. These larger paintings, right? Because around the back is where you had a lot of smaller type print, right?

So you needed to leave these amorphous, darker areas that would otherwise, I think, in a composition have more detail and color variation. So yeah, definitely that was a consideration. And on just the front cover you can see that the top is generally, Less detailed and darker so that the type would pop.

So yeah, so she had to definitely consider that. I've often thought that these wraparound book covers would make perfect wine bottle labels.

Ooh.

Because you have the- Yes ... The name of the wine on the front, and then around the back you have all the type about- ... you know, the story of the painting, telling a story about the painting or the wine itself, right?

Make a great- That

Andrea Martucci: is- ... bottle ... brilliant. I hope somebody who owns a winery is listening to this right now and- I hope ... reaches out afterwards.

Laura Sawyer: I did mock one up called Forbidden. Like, [00:21:00] this this red hot Merlot, right? I did a mock-up label of a wine bottle, and it was a very close-up of cleavage and surrender, and the title of the wine, the name of the wine was Forbidden, which I thought was fun.

Andrea Martucci: Oh, my gosh. I would, if I saw that in a wine store, I would buy it so fast.

Laura Sawyer: See? Like- Yeah. A wine company should, I should approach them. It could be seasonal. You know, Valentine's Day's an obvious one, but just, you know, romantic evening.

Andrea Martucci: Yeah.

Laura Sawyer: Women shop for wine. They want a night, an evening to be romantic.

Why not have your wine feel that way, too?

Andrea Martucci: Yeah.

Laura Sawyer: But anyway, just a thought.

Andrea Martucci: And I wonder, I don't know if you have any thoughts on this, but, like, why it seems like we're coming back around, we, I don't know- Mm-hmm ... Some of us in the community are coming back around to an appreciation for the original artwork.

I have some thoughts, but I'm curious why you think now, in the year 2026 or the 2020s-

Laura Sawyer: You know, with me it's really coincidental because as I said, I've had the paintings for [00:22:00] 10 years, but I've been working and, you know, I just haven't turned my attention to it. But I've been observing, right?

Yeah That there's a shift underway. I think the growing interest in romance is probably also affected by the complex world we're living in, right? With the tensions, whether they be political or economic or climate or whatever. I think people are looking for places where there is a sense of joy, a sense of community, romance, you know, releasing a little dopamine into the system for whatever, right?

Yeah Escapism. So I think all of those things combined may be contributing to it, not to mention that this isn't the only arena where women's interests and women's contributions are being recognized, long after the fact or you know, long overdue. So probably coincides with a lot of those [00:23:00] different things.

Andrea Martucci: Yeah. Yeah. And I wonder, there, there was this big shift into digital- First it was digital photography and desktop publishing and then it's become purely digital art. And I don't want to make a blanket statement about digital art that it's lesser than, you know- Mm-hmm oil painting. It's a different skill set, but I think that what I see is like on the whole the art has become much less detailed, much simpler. And not just like in a, hey, this is a style that we like, but to me it feels like much less investment in- ... representing what these books are about and really, I don't know.

I, just when I think about- Yeah ... like the, the time that went into an oil painting and all the things that went into a cover for books that were not big books, you know? Yeah. A, a lot of these, a lot of these books, sometimes the cover is more interesting than the book a lot of times. Yeah. You know?

Laura Sawyer: One, at the time, I could go into any CVS and see five of my mother's [00:24:00] covers on what was an enormous aisle of magazines and physical books, which we don't-

Andrea Martucci: Yeah ...

Laura Sawyer: have anymore. So people are shopping for their books online, so you're even more removed from the cover art, and it has to really jump out, whether that's typography- Right or color. So there may be a reason why the simplification, lack of detail has evolved, that has to do with the fact that people are not choosing the book based on the cover in a physical environment anymore.

That's part of it. And I also think it's a really interesting time to look at the original oil in this era of AI, where we're standing on the precipice of art and writing and craft being automated entirely, right?

What is the human hand or the human mind, human imagination contributing? What is the partnership we're about to forge- ... with this emerging technology that is much more helpful and much more intrusive much more commanding than any that [00:25:00] we've seen before. So to see an oil painting where somebody spent, whatever, three weeks sitting in front of an easel with a hand with a paint brush and oil paints- Mm-hmm and turpentine, hand-painting these things, I think has a certain significance that it might not have had even 10 years ago.

Andrea Martucci: Yeah. That's true. And I think, your mother's paintings ... - they're very sexy. They're, like, just very sensual, and, you know, the expressions, the poses, they do ev- They're

Laura Sawyer: erotic- Yeah

but it's a psychological eroticism. It's not-

Andrea Martucci: Yeah ...

Laura Sawyer: you know, the, the Fabio, actually. There's not that much bare- Yeah ... chest. It's not that explicit-

Andrea Martucci: Yeah ...

Laura Sawyer: sexually, like physically, but psychologically- Yeah ... it's very erotic, yeah.

Andrea Martucci: Yeah. It's about where the hand is and the tension in the hand or, and in- Mm-hmm

I think so Mary Lynn Nielsen who you mentioned earlier, she went to Lovestruck, and she was holding up this tissue paper like preparatory document. [00:26:00] Yeah. And I forget exactly what she said, but your mother had left a note about his hand is grasping her waist or something like that.

I'm like, "Yes, that."

Laura Sawyer: A little detail, right? Yeah, she was really specific about that, and she knew how to capture- that sexual tension, that moment. The, the name of the exhibition is Holding the Moment, and it is that moment before, right? And often in the woman's face, you see this sense of choice and power and agency, and at the same time, you know you're right on the cusp of surrender, right?

There's anticipation, there's choice. S- so much tension, and she knew exactly what she was doing and exactly what she was looking for and trying to capture, which she loved. She loved men, as I said. She loved romance.

At w- some point, she was interviewed for the program 20/20, which was like a friendlier 60 Minutes or something.

And when she went in for the interview, she said to [00:27:00] the guy, "Word of warning: do not diminish the art or the genre." And at some point he said you know, my wife reads these things." And she said clearly she's finding satisfaction there that she's not finding at home."

Andrea Martucci: Do they leave that in?

Laura Sawyer: I don't know.

I just, you know- I hope

...

Laura Sawyer: I said, don't fuck with me. Yeah,

Andrea Martucci: yeah. Pardon

Laura Sawyer: my language, but no,

Andrea Martucci: she's like- For the genre ... she's like, "I warned you."

Laura Sawyer: I warned you. But anyway, I don't know how I, I got there from where we were, but it came to mind. But-

Andrea Martucci: No, it's, it's so true.

Yeah, I think, It, again it kind of mirrors the things people say about the books themselves, right? Where there's this idea that because there is sex in them, that it is again I struggle so hard. I'm like, "I don't wanna make this binary," but that it's gratuitous. And I'm like, you know what?

There's a place for gratuitous sexuality, I don't have a problem with it. But it's more the misunderstanding that's the problem, [00:28:00] right? When you see a couple in an embrace, why does, you know, society's mind immediately jump to, "This must be tawdry," as opposed to, "This is a beautiful, intense moment of trust and love"?

Laura Sawyer: It's romantic. About love. It's about human connection, right? I've thought a- about that a lot as well. There are a lot of male musicians and singers who sing profoundly about love or loss of love, right? Like-

Andrea Martucci: Mm-hmm

Laura Sawyer: And yet women are associated with rom-coms and romance, and I don't know where this delineation happens, where in some cases it's fine to sing about love and heartache and- Mm-hmm

yearning and longing and ... But it's not equally valid to paint it or honor it for what it is, which is human and beautiful. I don't know And that [00:29:00] somehow that's just a women's interest. It's clearly not just a women's interest or the population would die out.

Andrea Martucci: Yep. Yeah. And I think the research indicates that when it's a women's interest, then it's a problem.

Okay. You know what I mean?

Yeah. It's it's like- ... oh, women like that? It must suck.

Laura Sawyer: It's somehow inferior, as I said, to crime or whatever else, right? But, you know, she was one of two women at the time doing romance illustration. Elaine Duillo, who I think you're familiar with, and her.

Elaine, I think, was the other Elaine, was the first person, woman admitted to the Society of Illustrators, and my mother was the second. And the rest were all men doing romance illustration cover art.

Andrea Martucci: Mm-hmm.

Laura Sawyer: And some of them beautifully. My mother was very close also with Robert McGinnis- ... who did a lot of romance covers.

And you were talking earlier about the difference between identifying as a fine artist or not. He later did Western-

Andrea Martucci: Yes ...

Laura Sawyer: fine art. And again, it felt like there was him, who was the illustrator, who did [00:30:00] Breakfast at Tiffany and James Bond posters- Mm-hmm ... and romance covers, and then him as a sort of Western fine artist, and that they were separate.

I don't get it, but anyway.

Andrea Martucci: Yeah. It's wild I source the originals from a lot of different places, but one place is eBay. And one artist Howard Rogers, who also started going into Western art- ... but, you know, who did romance novel art, I can get Howard Rogers' original illustrations for, I think I got one for under $200, and it's enormous, right?

Beautiful. Same artist, his Western art or like a portrait or whatever- ... Instantly over $1,000, you know, and up, right? The same artist. It's the same person.

Laura Sawyer: Exactly. What's the category and who determines? Then you have to really look at the artwork world and say, you know, who's the arbiter of taste and who's the arbiter of what's valuable, right?

Andrea Martucci: Yeah

Laura Sawyer: And I don't know that much about the artwork world other [00:31:00] than, That illustration art has, for a long time, been less valued. The Norman Rockwell Museum and Norman Rockwell people have, for a very long time, worked to address that discrepancy, but it still exists.

Andrea Martucci: Yeah. And Laura, I wanna talk more about you.

You said you retired. You said, "Great, I have time now to work on this." But what did you do before you retired? And also tell us more about your childhood growing up with your mother, with this art all around you, and her being so dedicated to her art.

Laura Sawyer: Yeah. As I mentioned earlier, we moved to the Midwest and she couldn't work, and it was not a happy time. We moved back to New York and she fell in love with somebody other than my father Oh. And left the family. I stayed with my father. Oh,

Andrea Martucci: okay.

Laura Sawyer: And she launched the next chapter of her life. We were still, we still saw her, but she, you know, pursued art again wholeheartedly.[00:32:00]

But going to her apartment or whatever once a week, she was always at her easel, right? And she was so dedicated and passionate about it and so hardworking. For me, this wasn't my pursuit or interest, art generally. I started in advertising in New York. I worked for 10 years at BBDO and other major New York agencies.

Then when my kids were growing up, I went back to school. I got a master's in women's studies and a PhD in adult learning and development. I taught in the state university system of New York for 10 years, and then I moved into executive and corporate leadership development, which I did for the last 10 years.

But the master's in women's studies was an interesting intersection with my mother. I don't think she would've said that she was a feminist necessarily. She would say, "I'm feminine." Um- ... a powerhouse. She was a force. But I was surprised at myself that I really became so interested in women's interests and women's [00:33:00] psychology.

So I've done a number of things over the years that relate to women's interests. So I guess that is an intersection between the two of us, and now this intersection again later as I come full circle and really look at her work and appreciate it. And my intention- it's a fun project and the response has been great.

But I really do want to validate her as an artist, and I wanna validate the genre and the visual language of romance.

So this first step at Lovestruck, you know, could be the beginning of many. You know, I may go to multiple cities and in partnership with other romance bookstores or galleries, continue to show the work and continue to generate a conversation around it.

A woman from UConn showed up on like the first day of this exhibition. Her name, I wrote it down here. Alexis Boylan. So she's a professor of art history at UConn, [00:34:00] and she's really interested. She's researching this and researching romance illustration history and all of that, and I really look forward to talking to her.

She's spoken to Lovestruck. But I want to generate that kind of conversation. I want people to really enjoy the art and also to have a, serious conversation about women's interest in the visual arts. So it's almost like another career. Almost like my fourth career.

Andrea Martucci: Yeah.

Laura Sawyer: And raising kids was one, so that would actually have been my fifth career.

Andrea Martucci: Yeah. Yeah. But- and I think, it's so interesting to hear, so your your work history, but then also your academic history. Mm-hmm. So I feel like I s- I see both the women's studies and the learning and development and the sort of like corporate part coming through in what you're talking about and this next chapter, where, you know, you're obviously aware of kind of the lack of appreciation for your mother's work in the art world and you know, in the romance book world because it's associated with women, right?

But then [00:35:00] I think that you're, y- you know, hitting on the, sorry, what was your PhD in again? It was-

Laura Sawyer: Adult learning and development. A-

Andrea Martucci: adult learning and development, right? There does seem to be an educational element in what you're doing as well, right? In-

Laura Sawyer: Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, no it, I think it is gonna draw on a number of interests of mine.

Certainly, yeah, education, women's studies, women's psychology interest in whatever, culture, society-

Andrea Martucci: Mm-hmm ...

Laura Sawyer: change. And then yeah, I'll rest easy just having my mother's contribution recognized, right? And her talent validated and the contributions she made to the genre and really defining, to a large extent, you know, the visual language of romance early on. Mm-hmm.

Andrea Martucci: Mm-hmm.

Laura Sawyer: But then it could also be fun. We have an RV, and I could see doing a road trip.

Andrea Martucci: Yeah.

Laura Sawyer: Going around with paintings and going, you know, doing e- exhibits in different markets and, you know, we... It could [00:36:00] just be f- really fun, too, to show this work in different places and maybe get some pieces in a collection here or there.

Andrea Martucci: Yeah. what is your ambition or what are you thinking in terms of getting the work out there?

You know, obviously showing it- Mm-hmm ... uh, And taking it around as, as much as you can, but then also I know that on your website you're working towards making prints accessible. Mm-hmm. Do you have any thoughts on selling originals, or, getting into museums?

what are you thinking there? What's

Laura Sawyer: the plan?

Andrea Martucci: Yeah, What's your plan? What's the

plan? I mean, I obviously have a very vested interest in this. I'm like-

Laura Sawyer: Yeah ...

Andrea Martucci: when are the originals going up for sale?

Laura Sawyer: Yeah. I don't have a firm plan to be honest. This Lovestruck exhibition is an experiment, right? Let's see what happens when we put this art out into the world and what is the response to that.

So really that's the first step. So I'm not selling paintings now. If somebody came to me and really wanted to buy a specific work, I can't say [00:37:00] that I won't sell it, but that's not my intention. The intention now is to get the work out there and validate her. We've said on the website that we'll do museum quality prints.

Despite my wine label idea, I really don't wanna put a bunch of merch out there, you know, like coasters and tea towels and mouse pads. Yeah. I mean, Maybe.

Andrea Martucci: Mm-hmm.

Laura Sawyer: But not initially. A- and initially I really want to honor the work as serious- work, sophisticated art.

Andrea Martucci: Mm-hmm.

Laura Sawyer: So not to say that I wouldn't do those things.

I have a 31-year-old daughter who would love to consider how to work this into fashion, right? Mm-hmm. Like sort of urban or contemporary fashion using these-

Andrea Martucci: Oh, yeah ...

Laura Sawyer: Retro kind of older historic images. I don't know. We'll see where it goes, but right now the intention is not to sell the work, but to get the work out there.

And if [00:38:00] I offer things, to have those things connote quality, right? Mm-hmm. And really high quality visual images. You were talking about the book covers where it's so much is lost.

Andrea Martucci: Mm-hmm. I

Laura Sawyer: think, you know, a lot of posters and things like that also do the same. They're just cranked out and, I don't know.

Doesn't interest me- Yeah ... right out of the gates. It doesn't interest me to do that kind of thing.

Andrea Martucci: Yeah. Yeah, I hear you on that. I've gotten some prints and I think that, yeah, it's like I, yeah, I can see the picture, right? Mm-hmm. But y- you don't see the level of de- once I started getting originals, I was like, "Ugh, I don't know if I'm going back to," you know-

these like digital prints. Ah.

Laura Sawyer: And some are. The Glisse, like museum quality. Yeah. Like we had some really high quality digital imagery created from some of these paintings and the-

Andrea Martucci: Mm-hmm ...

Laura Sawyer: initial sort of smaller scale prints that he did were really good. So it's possible to do it, you know? and then framed nicely, those can be really beautiful. So that's the [00:39:00] first step I think is just to choose a couple. Even thought about asking people, from the exhibit, vote which one would you most likely- Yeah ... for, you know, have us produce to start. But I haven't started it yet, but I will.

Andrea Martucci: Yeah. You know what's interesting is so when I was getting some of my originals framed I have this one by John Ennis. And actually, hold on. I think you... Oh, hold on. See my messy. Do you see this one over here?

Laura Sawyer: Yeah.

Andrea Martucci: Okay. So I've got that one, and it has a bit of- it's almost like even the dimensions he knew he needed, like his canvas was bigger in some dimension than what he needed.

Mm-hmm. And he put some colors there, but like the composition is off, right? And because and in addition to you know, the text is gonna go here, whatever. And I took it to the framer, who's, you know, an excellent framer, great appreciation for art, and I was like, and I was like such a newbie.

I was like, "Can you like cut the bottom here? There's nothing here." Yeah. You know? It's obviously [00:40:00] just, you know, he's just leading off the edge here. And she's like, "No, I can't do that. Not without talking to the artist." Oh, which is probably the right thing for her to do. I didn't know that was a thing.

Yeah. But as you were talking about these prints, I'm curious what your thoughts are in, would you ever take a painting

Laura Sawyer: and add- And crop it ...

Andrea Martucci: and crop it. Yeah, would you crop it?

Laura Sawyer: I would.

Andrea Martucci: Okay.

Laura Sawyer: I think, I don't think she would've been married to, if she were doing her own composition and didn't need to leave space for type, she would never have left so much- Right

you know, vague space. So I would definitely crop it. Mm-hmm. And I would even use, you know, if my daughter wants to use a fragment of a painting on a sweatshirt or something like, -

Andrea Martucci: Yeah ...

Laura Sawyer: at some point I don't have a problem with it. At one point in my early New York advertising days, I was the account supervisor on the New York Philharmonic and the Metropolitan Museum of Art accounts.

And I would go meet with the guy [00:41:00] at the Met, and he would say, "The curators are just furious that they're cropping the Van Goghs and the Rembrandt- ... bags and scarves." Yeah. But it was such a business generating, like how many, how many- Yeah ... you know, Monets and Manets and Van Goghs are, have been cropped to death and put on, merchandise.

So i- it's not a new idea.

Andrea Martucci: Yeah ...

Laura Sawyer: I just wanna, you know, really- diminish what is beautiful and what are the focal points, ... in it. But yeah, I wouldn't have a problem with that.

Andrea Martucci: Yeah. And you think even some of these big paintings, you know, I'm thinking in the fine art context, where there's so much going on and you're like actually this little thing right here is actually super interesting," and you lose it in- the larger painting and that that would be super interesting. I would love a painting or a, a print of just that.

Laura Sawyer: Just that fragment,

Andrea Martucci: yeah.

Laura Sawyer: Yeah. And, and- I think that's interesting, yeah ...

Andrea Martucci: and with the romance covers, if you have the wraparound ones, right?

Mm-hmm. Sometimes you'd have this little scene up in the corner, and that in and [00:42:00] of itself is cool.

But, like, when you're looking at it in the big thing, you're like, "That looks random." You know what

Laura Sawyer: Yeah. You know, if I were to do a book at some point, that's a very interesting idea, 'cause I think there's an opportunity probably at some point to do a coffee table book or something.

Andrea Martucci: Yeah.

Laura Sawyer: But you could really look at fragments more closely as paintings within paintings. Like- Yeah ... like Are particularly around the back, at the top above where the type would go, there's a painting within the painting that in her case, was often so detailed. She did whole ballrooms with 20- Yeah people in the background and war scenes, like, and on the back cover, and you're right, you could easily do that. I think that's a great idea, actually. Thank you.

Andrea Martucci: Oh, you're welcome. You're welcome. Did

Laura Sawyer: it get to the point? That's a very good idea.

Andrea Martucci: Yeah. And 'cause 'cause you, you are in a really enviable position.

 I wish that one of my parents was a famous romance novel cover artist. And also your daughter is in an amazing position, too. Where you [00:43:00] own the rights to these paintings. You can do these things. ... you can remix them

Laura Sawyer: Do whatever, yeah.

Andrea Martucci: Mm-hmm. You have great respect for the work, right? You're not harming the work, but there's so many more things you can do but there are so few people in your position who can do these things. True.

Laura Sawyer: Yeah, very few people are sitting...

And, you know, the reality is the artists in romance cover art kept the rights to the paintings, which was not the case if she did magazine covers and movie posters, and those, the rights went with the publisher or the movie house- ... or whatever. But nobody ever believed that there would be any value in these paintings.

A, there were so many, because-

Andrea Martucci: Mm-hmm ...

Laura Sawyer: this genre has paid for all the other genres- Mm-hmm ... since the beginning of time because the volume of books. But it's interesting, not many people held onto them either. I don't know how many collections like this there are out there, particularly of this caliber art from that time- Mm-hmm because didn't believe That there would be a future [00:44:00] value, but-

Andrea Martucci: Yeah ...

Laura Sawyer: I think there clearly is.

Andrea Martucci: Yeah. And obviously, so the heyday was the '70s to the '90s, right? And depending on how old these artists were in that time period, we're seeing a lot of the artists either have passed away already, are quite old now.

You know, it's an interesting time in the sense that you're seeing this divide, I think, between like the heirs or, either because you have heirs or you have heirs who care more about this stuff- Yeah ... Who are seeing their role as curators and caretakers and thinking about that legacy- Yeah

versus I think some of these other artists, I don't know if they didn't have children or it seems like a lot of their work just, like-

Laura Sawyer: Just disappears ... d-

Andrea Martucci: yeah. And you know- ... you find things here or there, but maybe the people who have them don't have an appreciation for what they are, and they don't know how to bring it to the attention of the right people.

Laura Sawyer: Yeah, I've looked at, you know, auction [00:45:00] houses for illustration art, and there's not that much romance on there, and it's not valued at a very high price point. I don't think the market has been created, really- Mm-hmm ... for it. But I think the moment is right now.

Andrea Martucci: Mm-hmm.

Laura Sawyer: Actually pause and take stock and say, " This is worth appreciating."

Which is great. You know, I'm charging ahead with that intention.

Andrea Martucci: Yeah.

Laura Sawyer: Yeah.

Andrea Martucci: Yeah. And so say more, what's your daughter thinking of doing? So you said she's-

Laura Sawyer: I don't know ... fashion- She works in finance in New York, right? Oh. So this is not her primary interest, but she loves, she's always loved.

We would sit in my mother's house on those red carpeted stairs and tell stories about all the paintings. We would just make up stories, just pick a painting off the wall that we were looking at and make up a whole narrative for ourselves about what was going on in that, that painting, right? So since she was a really little girl, this has [00:46:00] been something she's intimately familiar with, and she loves the paintings.

And she thought about this long before I was thinking about this. But- Mm-hmm ... You know, sitting in her apartment in New York, it's hard to figure out how to start something. But these days I think it's a little easier and, you know, she could get some more help to do it. It would be a side hustle. You know, at least not at the beginning. It wouldn't be, she wouldn't give up her career for this. But I love that she has the interest, and I love that her perspective and what might speak to her is very different from me generationally, right? So if she does put something out there a- and see what the response is, I think that would be really fun.

We'll see.

Andrea Martucci: Yeah. Yeah. Sky's the limit. There's so much,

Laura Sawyer: there's so- The next generation, her, you know, about her grandmother. It's a nice story And she loved her grandmother. My mother was, her, my mother was really unconventional, really outspoken. [00:47:00] And so my kids loved her growing up because, you know, the other set of grandparents were pretty conservative and conventional, and my mother was the absolute antithesis of it.

So going to see Gran was really amusing, 'cause you never knew what she would do or say or what kind of questions she might ask them, which were much more straightforward and, you know, challenging them not to be sheep, you know? But to think- Yeah ... for themselves, and I don't know. So my m- my daughter would love to do something that honored her grandmother, I think.

Andrea Martucci: A- and thinking back to what you said earlier, where you don't think your mother would necessarily have called herself a feminist- Mm-hmm ... but when you tell her story, I'm like, "I don't know. Sounds like the epitome of the feminist dream," right? -

Laura Sawyer: Oh, no, she was a trailblazer.

She was really strong-willed, very smart, had a good business head on her shoulders. She was very successful. When she left my father, no alimony. I mean-

Andrea Martucci: Mm-hmm ...

Laura Sawyer: we literally bought her groceries [00:48:00] every week and brought them to her apartment, 'cause, you know, while they sold the apartment they bought together, she had nothing, and she built a very successful career from ground up.

She invested in the stock market very successfully. And then she built this beautiful, you know, Tara style home off, dramatic home, off of earnings from making art, right? So she was a- Yeah ... trailblazer. She was a force to be reckoned with

Andrea Martucci: She sounds like a lot of fun. Y-

Laura Sawyer: you know. You're

Andrea Martucci: like maybe not for your mother all the time, but

Laura Sawyer: Yeah.

Yeah, no. I have a lot of admiration for what she achieved and for the talent that she had certainly.

Andrea Martucci: Yeah.

Laura Sawyer: Yeah.

Andrea Martucci: Okay. I know you said that the exhibit at Lovestruck is currently undergoing some changes as they finish up the renovations and, but there will still be an exhibit. I know you're thinking about taking it on the road.

But in the meantime- Mm-hmm ... [00:49:00] where can people go to learn more about your mother's art and keep up to date with all the cool things that I know you're gonna do?

Laura Sawyer: Yeah. So The Art of Elaine Gignilliat . com, I is the website we've created for the exhibition, which also has, pages about her, about the process her story, et cetera.

So there's a lot on that website. There's an Instagram page, The Art of Elaine Gignilliat, where we're posting almost daily a painting or a series or a story or a reel. And then, you know, at Lovestruck right now, even just the guy who hung the paintings-

Andrea Martucci: Mm-hmm

Laura Sawyer: just did a re- he did a reel and said, "I did this cool installation today." And the response to that alone was great, right? 'Cause people are sharing it. So yeah, social media, the website, theartofelainegignilliat.com. There will be continued updates and again, this is an initial experiment, a testing of the waters.

So far so good. There will be an event at [00:50:00] Lovestruck probably in October, which would be a reception and a panel discussion. And then there'll be a s- you know, a permanent or semi-permanent display of the art there indefinitely. You know, we have a six-month loan agreement at this point. So it will be there, enough of them for people to get a real sense of what they look like in person.

And it's fun with them all clustered together, 'cause it's dramatic, you know? Yes. It's not like walking into a gallery space with one painting and then six feet down there's another. There's a whole cluster of them. You can see the range of work, the color palettes, the mood, the settings, the era, whatever.

I deliberately chose a interesting mix, so you get a sense of the breadth of the work. It's really fun. I hope people go see it and enjoy it.

Andrea Martucci: Yeah. I think it's great to have it in person somewhere, because there are obviously people like me who are, like, very [00:51:00] into romance novel cover art, and are doing the research, and we know all the artists and all that stuff.

Mm-hmm. But a lot of people, even romance readers, a lot of romance readers do not necessarily have that same deep interest where, you know, they're going out and seeking this out. Yeah. So I'm just imagining somebody who's, you know, they're interested in romance and they stop by Lovestruck in Cambridge, and they're like, "What's this?"

Laura Sawyer: You

Andrea Martucci: know? So

Laura Sawyer: I- Yeah, that was the immediate reaction was like, "Wow, what is this?" yeah. People don't know. They've never been seen. These paintings have never been seen in the 50 years since they were made publicly. So it is s- surprising and interesting and fun.

Andrea Martucci: Awesome. Thank you so much for speaking with me about this.

Laura Sawyer: Such a pleasure. Thank you for reaching out.

Andrea Martucci: Hey, thanks for spending time with me today. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, or review on your favorite podcast app or tell a friend. Check out shelflovepodcast.com for transcripts and other resources. If you want [00:52:00] regular written updates from Shelf Love, you can increasingly find me over at Substack.

Read occasional updates and short essays about romance at shelflovepodcast.substack.com. Thank you to Shelf Love's $20 a month Patreon supporters, Gail, Copper Dog Books, and Frederick Smith. Have a great day. Bye.